Netherlands rated most unfriendly country for Expats

Netherlands rated most unfriendly country for Expats

The Netherlands has been rated among the most unfriendliest countries in the world for expatriates by Forbes magazine while Canada is rated the most friendliest country for expats.

The US is rated fourth after Canada, Bermuda and South Africa by the US magazine which looked at the results of a recent HSBC Bank International’s Expat Explorer survey in four categories.

These are the countries where it’s easiest to befriend locals, learn the language, fit into the new culture and integrate into the community.

Canada was most welcoming for the second year in a row; more than half of survey-takers there said they’d make friends with locals.

In the case of US, the results of the survey suggest that ease of learning the local language and adapting to the local culture are areas in which the US fares well as an expat destination – despite low scores in organising finances and health care.

Canada, Bermuda and South Africa were helped to the top of the list because more than 80 percent of the expats surveyed there say they are native English speakers.

The top ten friendly nations were: Canada, Bermuda, South Africa, US, Australia, Spain, France, Britain, Malaysia and Germany.

Do you think the Netherlands is the most unfriendly country for expats?
We’d love to hear your stories as well as any advice you may have for your fellow expats in comments below!

More at The Dutch Daily News

  • http://twitter.com/vijaykiran/status/56654779572686848/ Vijay Kiran (@vijaykiran) (@vijaykiran)

    More reasons for me to stay back! NL rated unfriendliest to befriend locals, learn the language, fit into new culture http://t.co/vdpY8Cv

  • http://twitter.com/locusta/status/56679029083881472/ Amanda Potter (@locusta)

    NL rated most unfriendly country for expats. http://bit.ly/ewlSBp I’d like to disagree cause I don’t like Forbes Mag…. US-centric rating.

  • http://twitter.com/tomkloos/status/56725198220701696/ Tom Kloos ✔ (@tomkloos)

    Nederland meest onvriendelijk land. Netherlands rated most unfriendly country for Expats http://v.zite.com/g88caF via @Ziteapp

  • Lived in Breda

    This is “BS” the Dutch are great and the culture is awesome, makes me wonder who they surveyed for this ridicules information!

  • Dominic

    I am a Canadian expat in the Netherlands. I think Europe in general is closed for immigration except when it comes to High Skilled migrants. I wouldn’t say that the NL is more unfriendly than any other European countries. But you do need to make a minimum of effort to integrate whether in Canada, you can immigrate being low skilled and never integrate any community but yours (multiculturalism).

  • http://twitter.com/sufilgueiras/status/57017393427390464/ Su Filgueiras (@sufilgueiras)

    "@dutchdailynews: Netherlands rated most unfriendly country for Expats http://bit.ly/gIPprq" pq será?

  • Someone who agrees

    @ Breda- You sound like you live in a perfect little bubble. Are you from a western country? Because I know a lot of Expats, and I have only met one Westerner who didn’t have a terrible struggle here… Either that or you are under the age of 25 and still going to college. The Dutch are generally cold people who don’t make new friends after they leave college, and work (other than cleaning) is impossible to find for an expat unless they were able to go to school in the Netherlands, have some amazing degree (even then it’s often not good enough) or you are fluent in Dutch, or are an asylum seeker (they get everything handed to them). Who they surveyed? Probably everyone else but you, because really? It’s not all that wonderful living in a country where no one talks to you and you are considered unemployable.

  • http://twitter.com/EddieSiemerink/status/57283184177594368/ Eddie Siemerink (@EddieSiemerink)

    Netherlands rated most unfriendly country for Expats – http://www.dutchdailynews.com/unfriendly-country-expats/

  • http://twitter.com/rodr1gol0pes/status/57357315464110080/ Rodrigo Lopes (@rodr1gol0pes) (@rodr1gol0pes)

    Netherlands rated most unfriendly country for Expats http://bit.ly/gDL4d1

  • Sven L

    The Dutch are wonderful people. What the experiences of self-centered US expatriates are interests me very little. Of course it is “easy” to go to Canada or the US, easy entry into nothing that is. They exterminated the natives and implanted a bland, standardized, McDonaldized society. As a European from Sweden I find my quality of life to be immeasurably higher in Europe than in North America, mainly due to the people one meets. The US seems “friendly”, but is just a mass of equally desperate people taking advantage of each other. Five minutes of exaggerated “friendliness” and then: give me some money or fame, somehow. Americans come and go and nobody really cares.

  • Chris V

    This article misinterpreted the results from Forbes. Below are the actual ratings from the magazine. These are numbers out of the 14 countries which were ranked, with the lower numbers being better. While these numbers aren’t great, they don’t place the Netherlands in last place.

    Local Friends: 10
    Community Group: 7
    Learned the Language: 4
    Bought Property: 6

  • Jacobo

    I totally agree. I have lived in many countries, and only in the NL I have found so many problems to integrate. You just have to have a look at the vocabulary they use when talking about immigrants, alloctonen, ex-pats, immigrants of 3rd generation (sic)… If you are not blond and blue eyed you will always be considered as a foreigner. I have seen pubs where you are asked to pay money or not depending on your skin colour.
    The social skills of the dutch are very low. The insist on talking in english, even if you address them in their language, so it becomes impossible to practice the language. They are not tolerant, just indifferent.

  • Don’t take it personally

    Sven L., you seem to be the perfect example of how traveling could make a person narrow minded and arrogant about ones own culture. I find a lot of problems with your thought pattern. First off, I suspect you haven’t bothered to actually live in another culture, such as the US or Canada. If you had, you wouldn’t make such uninformed statements unless you are an idiot. You sound like you spent 5 minutes in the airport and then went home on your pretentious white horse.

    Second, why is it a problem for a culture to have friendliness as a default mode? Even if part of it is pretending, I still think it is much nicer than just being a jerk by default. Besides that, if you spend some more time elsewhere you would find that the friendliness is often not fake and generalizes consistently to other settings.

    Third, how on Earth could you compare the quality of living in these places then? You basically say that people in Sweden are just better than elsewhere. I think the Germans felt the same at some point.

    History is also not your strong suit, Europeans exterminated the natives before they became part of the blend of people we now refer to as Americans. Besides that, of course European history is very peaceful in general as well.

    Finally, why are the Dutch wonderful people? I am Dutch and I don’t think any group of people is a priori nicer than the other. Cultural differences certainly make some places much easier to live than others, and the Netherlands is definitely difficult for expats. Rudeness served on a platter of pretentiousness and non-existing tolerance. But that might just be right up your alley, I think you would fit right in actually.

  • Jonny Foreigner

    I totally agree with the Forbes conclusion.
    Initially the Dutch seem very friendly but this is an illusion. They are extremely xenophobic and expats are never accepted into the society. As mentioned above, even if you try to speak to them in dutch, they either ignore you or speak back to you in english. They do themselves no favours at all.

  • RRes

    I was born and live in the Netherlands, and want to get out as soon as possible. Political climate is frightening and i’m ashamed of the Dutch tolerate intolerance. Once again, just like in WWII the Dutch show their real face: they don’t care about anyone but themselves.

  • RRes

    I was born and live in the Netherlands, and want to get out as soon as possible. Political climate is frightening and i’m ashamed of the Dutch who now tolerate intolerance. Once again, just like in WWII the Dutch show their real face: they don’t care about anyone but themselves.

  • NN

    The article got it wrong, Netherlands is rated 13th out of 100 countries (so only half the world’s countries were surveyed).
    http://www.expatexplorer.hsbc.com/#/countries
    Check your sources before you use an erroneous article to share your emotions.

  • ivo

    @Dont take it personally! For a Dutch person you sound like you are orginally not from here! Not that i does matter where you come frome! But how would you react? ive, like Sven or any other person that is borned in the Netherlands and people talk of shame of your country! I dont say the Netherlands is the greatiest country in the world for expats! But certianly not the worst! The worst country for expats is where the have no expats at all! In Amsterdam we have 167 nationalities (the highest in the world ) living! Why would the stay here, ive the Netherlands is the worst! That doenst make sense!

  • Don’t take it personally!

    @ Ivo: Well, if criticizing the place I happened to grow up in disqualifies me from being “from here” then so be it. Apparently, Dutch tolerance now even implies that I am hardly Dutch if I don’t think I come from Dutch Wonderland. If we go that route, then please do not call me Dutch because I would find it offensive.

    But alas, moving on to the rest of your flawed argument; Your statement that Amsterdam harbors the largest number of nationalities in the world is simply not true, without needing to do any research I could tell you that almost any larger US university has at least that number of nationalities on their main campus. I’m not even talking NYC, this even holds for universities that are practically in the middle of nowhere.

    Second, the argument that expats from many nationalities live in Amsterdam does not imply that these people stay there, you would have to look at the turn over rate (i.e., how long does the average expat stay). And if they stay, how difficult did they find it to adjust? How friendly do they experience the Dutch to be (which is what the survey was about)? That some stay merely suggests that the unfriendliness of the Dutch is not enough for them to leave, nothing more than that. Perhaps it is because expats have another 166 nationalities to befriend, so that the Dutch mostly form a nuisance in terms of their lack of courteous behavior in the grocery store?

    Expats mostly go places because there are opportunities there (e.g., businesses, universities aiming for an international workforce, etc.). Yes, Dutch Wonderland does have such opportunities, like many developed countries. Many places in this world do not have these opportunities, so expats do not move there and the comparison is irrelevant. If hypothetical expats going to these places would find it terrible or not is completely unrelated and only open for speculation. The presence or absence of expats in certain countries certainly does not say anything about how friendly the people in these “terrible” countries would be.

    For me, the observation that the average Dutch person (if we for argument sake assume there is such a thing) is incapable of seeing anything wrong with Dutch culture is a reason to leave, I don’t like unfounded arrogance with the mix of hypocritical intolerance.

  • Don’t take it personally!

    @ NN: I agree with you that the reporting is not terribly clear, but it is not the case that Nl scored 13th out of 100. If I understand it correctly the article only considers the countries for which they had enough data to make a “meaningful” comparison (so
    much fewer)

  • http://DutchDailyNews Jacob Piliansky

    From my 2 years experience in ND it’s a horrible country which discriminates and disregards foreigners who are treated unequally and don’t have any rights at all.Moreover the Dutch often cheating on foreigners and are interested in their money only.

  • Rob

    I hear that Mars is terrible for expats – there are none there at all!

  • Don’t take it personally!

    Mars is terrible for expats. In 1994, four brave expats tried to go there but it didn’t work out on many levels. They must be jerks on Mars.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uOwVg2B79E

  • lou&nien

    Don’t take it personally!, you rock! XXXXXXX

  • jd

    I live in NL and can’t stand it. The Dutch are some of the rudest people I have ever encountered in my entire life. They are cheap, unhelpful and lazy. They consider no body but themselves (just try catching a tram and watch as they get on before you get off; make no effort to move or make room for you; and when they get on they will just stop in the doorway when there are 10 people behind them). When getting served by somebody in their shop/restaurant they will act like they are doing you a favour. And also they will physically push you to get past rather than say “excuse me”. You also have to pay to speak to customer service for your internet provider, electricity, water, bank and pretty much anyone to whom you already pay for a basic service.

    I know Swedish, Australians, French, Americans, Mexicans, English, Danish, Belgians, Germans, Lebanese, Tunisians, Welsh, Irish, Scottish, Canadians and they all think and feel the same way about the Dutch.

    Unfortunately I can’t leave at the moment but as soon as I can I’m outta here.

    P.s. the weather here is terrible which may be a reason why the Dutch are so foul.

  • leavinonajetplane

    The National slogan of the Netherlands is, “Me First.”

  • Laurie

    Totally agree with this article 110%. It’s not a surprise or news to those foreigners who put up with living here and it’s about time some honesty was printed about the real situation in NL. For far too long it’s ill-perceived fraudulent claims in the international media dominated as being a warm, friendly happy country with tolerance abound, it’s high time that got kicked up the bum.

    It’s pointless to repeat what people have said above, it’s all true. I’m a Brit who has lived here for 12 miserable years. I’ve given up on trying to “assimilate” into this society, it’s pointless and not worth the effort and time I put into it trying, nor do I want to since I learned what it meant to be Dutch. Can speak the (useless) language which was more often used for defending myself against the onslaught of why am I here, when am I leaving and the slew usual derogatory comments about me being a “buitenlander”. I refuse now to work in Dutch companies after putting up with many years of being blanked and a lot of unwanted attention from bad mannered men. I now work happily in a German company, with with normal people:P And what is it with the women? They really are weird here. Most of them have no ability whatsoever to communicate with anyone outside their “kring”. They lead very limited lives and never seem to want much out of them.

    You can’t miss them on holiday either in their brash orange outfits and hacked off haircuts. For some reason they cannot go and enjoy another country without bringing trailer loads of dry bread, rubber cheese and other hideously revolting food products with them, that goes far and beyond the tea bags that get dragged out of The UK by Brits.

  • allochtoontje :)

    I find some of these comments to be quite condescending. Do you honestly think all people are all horrible here, or perfect elsewhere for that matter? No language is ‘useless’! Second,it just sounds rather bitter and victim-like. What ever happened to being in control of your own happiness? Sure, people might be more or less open, depending on the place but to make general assumptions like this is superficial and narrow minded. I mean have these people lived in all places? It seems a tad unscientific and also unrealistic to me! Despite the flaws (yes indeed they are there), I reckon that in todays world, you’re pretty darn lucky to be an expat living here. In case one feels miserable and subject to horrible treatment, why not try their luck elsewhere?
    Good luck, have fun and keep smiling!

  • expat&autochtoon

    Wow – I’ve never seen such a group of unhappy people. Every country has its pros/cons and NL has then just like any other place. As an expat (and feel blessed that you have been given that opportunity for study and/or work) you’ll have to deal with things abroad that you wouldn’t have to deal with if at ‘home’…and yes, sometimes they cause negative experiences. But if you are not fixing things, then don’t nag. Honestly, I have been raised, studied and worked in different countries, but I have rarely ever felt as some of you have communicated. It’s a real shame, as you only live once and happiness lies within you. The experiences you have is what you make of them – turning them into good or into bad ones. So, if you don’t like it, then leave…it is actually that simple. But looking back on all the comments if the only things people are nagging about are unfriendliness, the weather and the language…well then NL isn’t so bad after all. P.s. I’m assuming for the quality of the stipulated negative results and comments above one has sifted through every millimeter of dirt, gone to every village to chat and have ‘koffie met gebak’ with all the inhabitants in all the Dutch provinces, to make a sound judgment (as there is a large variety of social characteristics based on history between the north, Randstad and the south). The results would have to be benchmarked against the ‘perfect’ human species. Please let me know when you have found one.

  • Don’t take it personally

    I agree that several comments on this forum are quite condescending, and yes, happiness does lie within to some extent. I also agree that people who have the chance to live and work in different places are amongst the happy few, even if they complain about certain things.

    Despite this, one could still have a discussion about cultural differences under the understanding that we are not talking about each and every member of society of course. To me, this seems almost too obvious to mention. If we could not do this, then a large part of the field of cultural anthropology would be completely out of the window. Personality tests would be pointless as well, and I could go on and on.

    For making cross-cultural comparisons, you also do not need to find the perfect human as a benchmark, you just need to come up with some scientifically justifiable method for creating an average member of the control group of interest. To then make statements about a certain culture would require enough data, but certainly not create the need to have had koffie met gebak with every member of that society. The entire field of statistics exists to take care of these sorts of issues, including and specific to this case the law of large numbers.

    Finally, the statement that one is not allowed to nag unless one does something about these issues is very odd. What does it mean to do something about an issue? Would debating it on the internet count, in the spirit of changing one mind at a time?

    Besides that, if one only has the right to criticize on issues they then have to do something about, I guess we would all have to be extremely careful in terms of picking our issues, as truly changing one or two of them in many instances would take a lifetime. I think it would then effectively follow that we as people would have to resign from sharing any negative opinion. But hopefully I am seeing this incorrectly.

    And yes, have fun and keep smiling.

  • Allochtoontje :)

    Fair enough and yes people should be able to debate about these things openly. In fact, it’s great that we can do this. I just find it astonishing to read comments that show shallowness and hypocrisy and a false sense of superiority, just showing that much (not always though)depends on the person’s outlook etc. Reading some things just makes me wonder how reasonable the person in question is.
    I will not even try to deny that there are cultural differences indeed and this makes the world so interesting. And of course we all complain i guess this is just human. Anyway, I am going to get ready for the Expat party tonight to boogie with some happy people!! Have a great weekend!

  • Don’t take it personally!

    Boogieing with happy people is certainly a much better way to spend your energy than complaining is. In fact, in some cases the energy spent on complaining certainly exceeds the energy one would need to spend to find ways to be happy. Just saying.

    Enjoy your weekend as well!

  • Expat in the ND

    Sven L. – you are obviously a Dutch national who is offended by this article.

    I must say though – I have lived literally all over the world my entire life for my job. In developed nations, under-devloped nations, North, South, western nations, eastern nations – you name it. Living in the Netherlands has been my worst living experience hands down. This even considering I met my husband there (another expat) and absolutely loved my job (not for a dutch company).

    This is the first nation I’ve lived in where I literally have made zero friends that are nationals. It baffles me. Every other nation I’ve lived in I’ve developed beautiful and meaningful friendships that have lasted years. The Dutch are some of the biggest xenophobes I have ever met (Zuarte Peter?!) – and the cold, cruel, attitudes of the Dutch I’ve often interacted with are just appalling. Now of course, this isn’t everyone, but the Netherlands definitely has left a lasting negative mark on me. Also in other nations where people don’t speak a language I speak I’ve never had trouble finding a kind person near by that is willing to help.

    Here, even if an individual can speak your language – they will pretend like they can’t (not kidding it has happened on many occasions). I am looking at several of these top scoring nations and it appears that they are all nations of immigrants (Australia, US, Canada). Holland – I can tell you – is not (have you seen their latest appointment to the EU parliament? Someone who’s entire political agenda is anti-immigration).

    I agree with JD on the lack of manners – holy lord – I swear no one that is a national uses the dutch equivalent for “excuse me” ever. No kidding. If you are on the tram, walking down the street, waiting in line somewhere, or especially shopping. People will literally cut you in line, push you to the side to get something they need, or bump into you to get where they need to get going.

    Trying to set up or communicate with my utility companies was a literal nightmare. Where the hell else on earth do you have to call a .10 a minute number to adjust a billing issue that wasn’t your fault? Or to set up services so that you can pay a company? It is the most frustrating and irritating thing to ever have to deal with.

    My friends who are expats that have lived in the Netherlands for 20 years say the motto in the Netherlands is “It can’t be done.” I’ve never experienced this mentality ANYWHERE else in the world. Literally if someone is providing you customer service in the Netherlands and they don’t know the answer to the question you are asking instead of saying “I am not sure” – or “let me ask” someone, they say “impossible”. At the grocery store, when purchasing public transport, restaurants, stores – you name it. Talk about a nightmare once again. I will agree with JD above on this one as well.

    Once, when their public transport ticket policy changed, and I tried to board a train I literally had a conductor tell me I couldn’t then call me an idiot. How about that for kindness and manners?

    The working culture is also one of the most lazy I have ever seen. Stores are never open or if they are they treat you like you should be so appreciative that they are giving you the time of day. Wait aren’t your customers the ones paying you?

    I could go on and on – but I won’t. A plus – their bike culture. I really enjoy that and stroopwafels are pretty delicious. Maybe it is the weather that has such an affect on peoples attitudes – it in itself is extremely depressing.

  • pops

    YOU”VE GOT TO BE KIDDING. IVE BEEN TO PLACES AND THE RUDEST AnD MOST UNFRIENDLY PEOPLE ARE IN SINGAPORE… HONGKONG COMES SECOND. ITS LIKE THEY DONT HAVE MANNERS AND DONT TREAT FOREIGNERS AS GUESTS!

  • M

    # 34 Expat in the ND – Well said! There are some good sides to the Netherlands but when it comes to manners and integrating…I have lived here for 10 years and things haven’t changed. I think it is time to give up.

  • Vincent

    I really think that none of the complainers have ever lived in Hong Kong, Singapore or China (Manners? Rude? Friendly? Interested in you ?? hahahaha)………….. give me a break! Pack your bags and start walking……You’ve still got a lot to learn…… and no, I’m not Dutch but I did live there for a while.

  • wtf

    The Dutch are pathetic. They don’t even live. They are just following the code of The Dutch ‘banal nationalism’ and work till their life ends. Pointless if you ask me. They are very analytical but they always ignore the most critical dimension, that of perspective. And this is not due to the 2D enviroment they live in.. All hail the queen!

  • Laurie

    allochtoontje :) When I meant 12 miserable years here, I MEANT 12 miserable years here! “Second,it just sounds rather bitter and victim-like.” You hit the nail right on the head, some of the things I’ve put up here, not going into details have been absolutely horrendous and should never have taken place in a polite first world society, even some Dutch were shocked and people were sued. Useless language it is as it’s not required outside the boundaries of NL/50% of BE (fact, can’t get around that one), even my (German) job in NL doesn’t require it, However they were far more interested in my Polish/Russian language ability since a hell of a lot more people in Europe speak these languages.

    Condescending!? The Dutch wrote the meaning on condescending and use it to the max. How about having to be treated like an less than knowledgable idiot by the locals for a large proportion, despite a having far better educational qualifications and experience, as well as other benefits of growing up in several different countries? Echoing sentiments here, NL has been the hardest place to live out of all of them and that includes time in E Europe.

    Yeah sure Hong Kong is well rude but that doesn’t give NL the excuse to go carte blanche on the “Ikke ikke” attitude. Beside gaining happiness has one necessary criteria – leave. As soon as the opportunity arises, you won’t see me for dust and I’ll take my crippling 40% tax drain with me.

  • Tom M

    Well I’m English and 32 and love living here (Amsterdam) while I agree slightly it’s hard to meet dutchies as there are so many other multi national expats I do feel the Dutch are very friendly, they are direct and honest so maybe Americans are not so used to that? A funny saying I was told us the British are too polite to be direct and the Dutch are too direct to be polite. Still I disagree with the article and a lot of the comments here.

  • Liam

    I’ve been living in Amsterdam for 2.5 years, speak a moderate amount of Dutch (I’m from South Africa, yay #3!) and still have almost exclusively expat friends. The Dutch friends I have are the ones who habitually have expat friends, and make an effort to associate with us. These are definitely the exception, in the time I’ve worked here, not one colleague has made an effort to get to know me (I’ve been invited for exactly one beer after work), while in a comparable time period in London I went to two colleagues’ weddings. Three different companies in Amsterdam and Den Haag, same result.

    So while the article is largely true (and the comments bear validity, seriously every service provider charges you E0.10 per minute to call them, tram/rail car doors are habitually blocked) the lifestyle as a whole is fantastic.

    Just don’t rely on the Dutch to make it so.

  • Be yourself , i am ME

    Some like red, others blue….

    You have to make your one life… And can’t blame others for The unhappy things in your life.

  • Irina Dunner

    Came back from Amstradam. I got a lot of dirty looks, insults, and not many locals where friendly. The other tourist are through! Never going back!

  • Dveditor45

    Strange… A lot of expats right here in South Limburg! No problems. Speaking the local language helps though.

  • Fringedlunatic

    Yeah, I lived there and when talking to mobile phone company was told “not possible” when asking questions and finally when asking to speak to supervisor…only to be told in the end that if I didn’t like it I should move back to my country and then hung up on.

  • simone van kempen

    Well that is how Amsterdam is and Amsterdam is not the only city in The Netherlands.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_YYD62PO6GBAH4X5YDXCJ4CUHXE Liz Briggs

    More than half of those survey-takers in Canada probably lived in Toronto or Vancouver! I’ve lived in Quebec and Nova Scotia; the first was a nightmare (even though I speak French) and Nova Scotia was better but I befriended only people who were also ‘from away’. The countryside of Canada is a boring and shallow place to live. Locals are often cliquey and suspicious of outsiders for years to come. Patriotism is rife when it comes to employment and so is favoritism. Toronto on the other hand, is divinely cosmopolitan. It’s all relative.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_YYD62PO6GBAH4X5YDXCJ4CUHXE Liz Briggs

    Hi there. BTW, Sven L. is not Dutch. He writes that he is from Sweden. :)

    The experience of living in the Netherlands, like in any country, must be relative to the region or city that you live in. Did you live in a big city? Perhaps they are more rude there than in the countryside, smaller cities, or towns. You seem to have had some really unpleasant experiences, which is unfortunate.
    I am a Dutch national who for the last 28 years has lived all over the world and anyone who’s ever told me about their visit to the Netherlands has raved about it. Fair enough, that was as a tourist. It must therefore be very different to live there as an expat. Last year I had a similar experience with living in northern Spain, near Santander. As a tourist it had been a fabulous experience. As a resident it was a nightmare and I experienced the grossest rudeness I ever have in my 50+ years. And there they charge even more than 10c a minute to talk to customer service. They have special 902 numbers for companies that cost the earth (there you have it, your answer to “where the hell else on earth” – as if you’ve lived just about everywhere).
    I left Spain after less than a year. Never mind all that EU crap, that you can live anywhere, because there is a lot of antagonism towards outsiders, no matter where they come from or which EU country they settle in. I’ve heard things like “those Poles” “those Rumanians” “those blacks”. Europe is still very racist indeed, perhaps now more than ever.
    I think that the Netherlands has been on edge since the cultural war and that people have become highly sensitised to foreign residents. 30 years ago when I had a bunch of colleagues from Britain they had nothing but praise for their life in the Netherlands.
    I can imagine that you perceive the Dutch working culture as lazy. When I left in ’83 I already had over 20 days’ leave a year! Hooray! In Canada, you still start off with 10 working days leave per annum and I think that the USA is similar. That’s called slave driving. Blue collar workers are also abysmally treated in Canada, unionised and all. I doubt that the same can be said for the NL, which country I am not defending and nor am I patriotic. I just felt the need to point out that an individual’s experience in a certain place in the Netherlands, does not typify the country.

  • Member

    Funny, you’re calling other people “self-centered”…? What a negative post, just an excuse to complain about how much you hate Americans. Get a life.

  • Wandercats

    Dear Laurie,
    Being a Brit, you might be a bit more careful about slagging of other country’s ‘revolting food products’… just saying… :-)

  • FRenchie

    To Expat in the ND: Great(est) comment! I couldn’t agree more after 7 years in Holland!!
    I am french, and I would generally say that they do like us for whatever napoleonian reason and our cultural influence.

    But still.. changing my Internet abonnement, talking to my bank, waiting for and getting into the crowded metro … Funny how they will NOT walk further in even though there is space at the back, NO they will stay close to the exit which is more convenient for THEM! Unbelievable. And also at the pizzeria, I asked for spiced oil, she said “sorry we don’t have it”. i said “yea but you had it last time”. She says: “No, we never had it” (and looking like I am the perfect bugger customer). I asked her to check with her boss and she brought me one portion that they usually insert into delivery bags. What a c*nt!!
    As long as you pay your fee (and with a smile), anyway you are fine, but what a struggle!
    And none of you mentioned the food!! It is terrible!!! And who seriously eats a cold bread sandwish (topped with ketchup btw) with forks and knife? or chocolate sprinkles with butter as “delicatessen” dessert.
    Shopping groceries in Albert Heijn gives merely the illusion of choice, but go to C1000 or Dirk and it’s the same rebranded crap!

    last negative: the weather – wanna shoot myself in the head 300 days per year.

    However, to bring a nuance, there ARE great job pportunities, ease to purchase an appartment, higher standards of living (ans salaries) and a certain way of life (like you can barbecue in a public park, try this in Paris!!) and you do actually partner with expats easily. if fact our “hate” of the Dutch culture brings us more together as “non-Dutch”. TRUE story.

  • Oliverdoylecatering

    well i have lived in holland on and off all my life i understand how people can think the dutch are rude, but i think its just the fact that they are direct. I was having a conversation with a friend over there recently about how limited the dutch language is compared to english for example in holland everything is “lecker” i find it very annoying and boring that everything is “lecker” in England there would be an infinate amount of ways to describe something without even touching on area slang. So when the dutch say “its not possible” or “its impossible” its just a more direct way of saying it instead of describing the ins and the outs of the situation. Another example of the difference in the english and dutch way is when you drive in england people will pull over when an obstruction is on there side, you pass and the common thing is to wave. This pointless stupid type of thing would not happen in holland which i actualy prefer, because why should i thank someone for pulling over when the obstruction is on there side. If you understand the dutch mentality of simplicity and limited vocabilary then you dont take offence to it. The other big point is that in holland i have never witnessed any aggresion or trouble other than what english people do there on stag dos etc. There is alot of english people talking how rude the dutch are and its a bad place to live all i will say to that is check the crime stats england is an absolute war zone where death and murder are everyday occurences along with rape and theft and burgulary. The dutch might be abit rude on face value at least they wont stab you and burgal your home. Try learing a basic level of dutch and you would find comunicating with locals easier. My opinion of the dutch is that they are very forward, straight up and calm and not very emotional compared to english hence the difference in music. Music is born of emotion and in england there is plenty of that. Holland is an amazing place with an amazing people they might seem a bit rude but you will never get into a fight, its just the straight way they are. I love the place always have always will i have no idea where all these expats live but they seem the type that would complain anywhere, and that is the biggest english trait i know. I have made plenty of dutch friends in all my different times over there and when im there for long times the dutch way starts to annoy me aswell but i think that happens everywhere. Please forgive me i cant spell by the way.

  • Spaniard

    Netherlands is surely depressing and boring. No doubt. As a Spaniard, it is quite hard for me, although wheather-wise not much more than in rainy London or dark Norway.

    Anyway, the Dutch are not xenophobe, they are just individualistic, their range of friends is quite limited and they don’t open up to new people easily. I still want to see all these warm and friendly countries like Spain, Italy or Portugal helping foreigners in the way that NL does.

    I bought a house, made friends and integrated in my second year already. Maybe you are overlooking something called “integration” and not living in your expat-bubble world. Try going to any other country as a foreigner not speaking the local language, complaining and calling them racists, and you’ll see what you get!

    By the way, I know it is hard to practice Dutch with locals but I will always remember meeting the so called “expats” being proud of not speaking Dutch after 20 years (and some of them even married to Dutch locals and with kids). Well, actually it is not much different from the British communities in the Spanish Costa del Sol. Ghettos will always exist.

    Anyway, it is funny to hear all these people complaining day and night but they actually never leave the country. Life is a matter of choices after all! So be consistent and don’t live a tormented life! 😉

  • wtf4u

    Well, not very different from the British, then! Come to London and learn what a fierce competitive business-oriented society is. All hail this other queen!

  • Omg

    Are you one of the many Essex hen-party goers? No wonder then! 😉

  • Rronald_25

    I agree with you, its not about the Dutch being unfriendly, its more like the Dutch are individualistic and its quite hard to learn the language (and of course because 80% of the expat surveyed being native english speakers). Try being German or Dutch in America or Canada and not being able to speak english, and see how hard it will be.

  • AllAtSea

    Ok, I am from Turkey and working in IT sector. Living in NL for 3 years. It is my first experience on abroad. Luckily I am having business trips and personal trips so I am learning about other countries as well (also by the help of international community here)…
    One of the biggest problem in NL is the common problem for Europe (which might be more profound in NL though) :
    It is racism and chauvinism. I have green eyes and I am blonde so people don’t think I am not Dutch but once I talk to them and they ask me where I am from the nightmare is becoming. Lots of stupid questions (just asked for the sake of asking because answers does no make any impact on their leaned understanding) which may include :
    1. You are muslim. Aren’t you ?
    2. You use Arab alphabet. Don’t you ?
    3. It is better here than Turkey. Isn’t it (because you know Turkey is an obscure, horrible country for them – it is very normal to see newspapers here. only the news you’ll see will be something negative about Turkey)
    4. Ohh you are drinking beer. How come ? Is it possible in Turkey ? (and most of the people who ask that been to Turkey as tourist and I guess they’re thinking it is a special treat for tourists to serve alcoholic drinks)
    5. Why did not you learn Dutch ?
    Then it goes about politics of Turkey etc. Some stupid jokes. People think they know your country better than you because of some kind of strange ignorance and self-esteem I can not address since I’m a software developer rather than a psychologist/sociologist…

    Apart from that there are some problems which is quite Dutch I guess :
    1. Very closed society. It is really hard to make friends and learn about Dutch living. Then you are blamed because you didn’t do that. In terms of Dutch my only friend is google indeed.
    2. Dutch people like to profile themselves for things they lack. I am talking about Tolerance stuff. Here I guess there is something happened at some point of history and Dutch started to be known as tolerant because of some (better) right for drug addicts, homosexuals etc. So you’d better be in one of those groups rather than being a normal professional.
    3. I’m sick of another profiling thing which can be formulated ass “being Dutch” or “Dutch xxx”. Things like Dutch weather, Dutch rain, Dutch tolerance, Dutch trains, Dutch cows. Itself it is enough to show nationalistic stuff. Once I was asked why Turkish people are so nationalist and the guy told me that Turkish people care a lot about their flags (well this is a long story and I accept the fact) but I never seen that many flags in my life at Queen’s day or World Cup time…

    So I see a very dangerous pattern in NL which is called “self-projection” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection) as a part of the country’s culture. I can really call it as “Dutch self-projection”…

    People here who defends their country by blaming others is doing wrong. We are all coming from different cultures and we are people with different mindset but we have some common observations. That means a lot and shows signs of problems. I would take it seriously rather than feeling insulted and try to defend myself…

    I could go on but I think that’s enough. I really still appreciate many things here but the problems I mentioned above slowly starts to mask nice things. But still it is a nice experience for me… However NL needs a cure immediately.

  • Bubblegum_x

    Yeah, I think you just met the wrong people.

  • williamAV

    Really awful and unfriendly place, with a sham veneer of “individualism” when in fact it is one of the most conformist places I have ever worked.
    In addition downright rudeness is dressed up as “being straightforward”. Even Paris is more polite than most Dutch towns, cities and villages.
    Alos, I don’t think I have ever lived in a place either where the locals love to lecuture about a) your individual failing, b) failings of your own country (in this case England),
    Yet at the same time everything is better in the Netherlands, they believe, from their beer licensing laws, to home heating systems, to rail network, to TV channels….. I could go on.
    And apparently we have to be eternally grateful for working in NL, when in fact the EU has been an open market for a long time and labour can move freely so that is no big deal, and it also seems to have escaped the locals’ attention that expats may actually be contributing to the economy.
    .

  • David Rubic

    I don’t, there is nothing charming about the Dutch people, attitude or culture. Its like charm was completely missed when they put this culture together. I am an Aussie expat and can relate to all the points. I dont mind being asked the stupid questions though, I just hate they make me justify my answers, like its really any business of there’s, why are you here? Really why, explain it so I can understand it.. I feel like giving them a dose of Aussie directness sometimes but that never goes well.. Somehow when I am direct and speak my mind they consider it rude.. So apparently only the White Dutch get a pass on being a’holes in holland.. Anyone else who has a go is immediately branded an irritating foreigner..

  • Irritating Foreigner

    Yes but least Americans have a sense of fun, and humour that makes up for all the crap and they are generally very polite, sometimes annoyingly so but you know better than being flat our rude and irritating and thinking it’s funny because you don’t know any funny people so don’t really understand all that humour stuff.. What you and other dutch or dutch sympathisers must realise is to be of Dutch culture is like a mild case of ass burgers.. It’s a handicap really that’s the way I deal and how I get through my day.. I display and exercise much tolerance., something the Dutch should really learn.. I propose a national marketing campaign to remind them that holland is really insignificant, no they were never a super duper power..back in their golden age.. They were a bunch of profiteering slavers who did nothing but bring misery and institutionalised racism to their colonies and made q lot of problems in the world some which persist to this day such as the problems their beloved wiliam of orange started in northern Ireland that. There is nothing to be proud of other than a few painters, big deal! What have the Dutch contributed to the world that is actually positive other than a blindingly misleading view of themselves as an open and tolerant culture.. Nothing could be further from the truth..

  • David Rubic

    I’ve lived in many countries and the Dutch are clearly the most conformist, most collective and least individualistic culture I have ever experienced. They are so lazy and difficult to work with, they demand all these employee protections but offer nothing at all in return. They sit in these jobs and never move for decades and think that’s it’s a good thing. They pick on you collectively if you show any initiative or creativity, it’s all about protecting the hierarchy here. The working culture here is really pathetic and miserable also, talk about selfish, unhelpful lazy, these are all the qualities they really regard as good here, because it’s good for the group.. Dont talk about Dutch individualism it doesn’t exist.. Only on trains occasionally when they decided to rebel by singing, as they know this really annoys other Dutch people.. But that’s their collective idea of “crazy” so that’s what they all do. In fact any noise can be annoying to a Dutch person on a train. They feel it is their right to stop the noise. I once had an old lady tell me to stop tapping my finger along to the music in my headphones and she was sitting across the aisle from me.. Must have had great ears for an lady, to hear light finger tapping above the train noise.. No not really at the end of the day Dutch people like to “f)ck” with you, it gives them pleasure to annoy foreigners, avoid asking them for directions. Smart phones are your friend.

  • Irritating Foreigner

    Bollocks these labels directness and honesty are excuses for rudeness, it’s not even a lack of sensitivity generally it’s flat out arrogance and nastiness, cloaked as directness and honesty.. Believe me I can be very direct and very honest as I am Australian and grew up in that, taking the piss culture..calling a spade a spade, giving everyone a fair go and all that.. To be honest I find the Aussie directness can also be a bit arrogant and annoying but at least it’s usually wrapped or tempered in some humour, so you get a. It of s laugh out of it, otherwise things can get nasty.. I think the Dutch just start out nasty and as they don’t have a fighting culture they getaway with being as rude as they like to each other, and so never learnt when to pull their head in.. I’ve slapped a couple on trains and stuff for getting in my face.. It’s always a massive shock to them, like it’s a right to go and get in anyone face you like, even a complete stranger minding there own business on a train. They always start out projecting toughness and as soon as you slap them, it’s always like it’s the first time its ever happened.. I mean that’s I guess what they mean by tolerant, they tolerate this rudeness from each other, but look out if you start being honest and direct with them! Try that out and see where it gets you, you will immediately be branded an irritating foreigner, they can give it but they can’t take it

  • tony

    What about your very useful British product: football hooligans
    Very decent indeed.

  • tony

    They look in the mirror that the Dutch held up.

  • Wabukeva

    this is a typical DUTCH comment..dutchies can’t handle genuine american openness and friendliness, because they are too stuck up their own behinds.The Dutch are the most jealous, negative race of people I have ever encountered, and yes, I am living here, in NL. Argh. Here’s typical Dutch “wisdom”; a dutch neighbour told me the other night that a dutch person never says “nice to meet you” after meeting you, because, of course ,”how do they know?” that it’s nice to meet you, maybe you are a terrible person. They look at everyone (and I mean typical dutchies,not the sainted angels who seem to actually be a little open, usually the ones who are over the hill and the bs, or who have travelled a lot) suspiciously. Not surprising when you consider this is the country that turned over just about every single jew to the Nazis when they rolled through, and now want to sweep out all the immigrants from north africa. xenophobic , jealous race of people, with the manners of pre school children fighting in the sand box.honestly,

  • Rodi

    Dutch people are fake…they just expect to get rich out of hard working expats…that’s the reason why international companies are moving away. I prefer Germans, English or anyone else besides the dutshits…

  • SacreBleh

    France?! Are you kidding me?! France’s horrible for expats and even for French people. Get real.

  • Lsgd

    The only rude people you find in Singapore and Hong Kong are the English!!

  • Mugsy

    How this article brings back memories of Holland! I can see both sides, but at the end of the day I left Holland 7 years ago after living there for 6 years, and I honestly have to say that despite the shortcomings (that – incidently every country has) I look back at my time in Holland as 6 of the best years of my life.

    I can sympathise with all the anger directed to the ‘rudeness’ in Holland. A perfect example: My heavily pregnant wife on a tram and not one person offered to get up, and yep, flipped my lid (in Dutch too – gave it some more potency) and yes, we have been to Albert Heijn and to cafe’s / restaurants where we didn’t tip because the leather-skinned chain-smoking old lady was ruder than rude itself but lets face it, I have encountered rude people everywhere you go, even in my backyard….(Australia).

    Having said all of that, some of my best, best friends whom will always be my best, best friends are Dutchies. I think that there are two kinds of Dutch (and it is applicable all around the world in some ways). I had a lot to do with what I called Anglocised Dutchies. With that I mean ones whom have been/worked overseas or play a sport not commonly known for being played in Holland – like Cricket and Rugby, that are traditionally played in english speaking countries. Many in my work community had spent time abroad, or worked with many expats and overall I found the clear majority to be great people.

    I was lucky enough (or unlucky…..nah, I certainly say lucky) to work as a lone expat with upwards of 30 Dutchies in close proximity, but also working with over 500 Dutchies overall being maybe one of 10 expats in that lot. Yes there were miserable and rude locals amongst them, not willing to give you the time of day but the rest – in general – we great. You learn a bit of the language – and it is always good to learn the potent stuff that I cannot repeat here, and you have some fun with it. Yes, it was frustrating when you made an attempt in general day to day life with Dutch, only to have English thrown back at you, but I guess that’s life.

    I did know many expats whom struggled badly with the locals, many English whom couldn’t wait to get to Schiphol on Friday arvo to fly back to the UK, and others whom just didn’t seem to fit in. I found with many of them they failed with the ‘integration’ process because they fought it, or let smaller things get them down and so forth. I went through it and the Dutchies did wind me right up, and another Aussie friend and I were even arrested ON SUSPICION of being English football hooligans (yes, simply walking down Van Wouwstraat while Euro 2000 was on and simply on suspicion) but the positives outweighed the negatives clearly in my experience.

    I think a lot of it boils down to the group of Dutchies you end up falling into. I guess I was really lucky. That’s why every 2nd year when we go back to the UK from Australia to visit in the in-laws, we always come by Amsterdam and see our dutch friends. I will do that without fail for as long as I can. Not to mention the Damm is an awesome city.

    I could go on and on about the Nederlanders. They are an interesting breed but at the end of the day, if you live there, absorb some of the culture, beer and locals, it is a dam, dam,dam great place…….the Dam!

    Groetjes!

  • Jo-blogs

    I HATE Dutch people with a passion … they’re simpleton demeanor…
    oddly shaped heads… stupid haircuts… Blatant ignorance… Lack of identity… shockingly stupid youth… Half the population think they live in Goa… Their lack of style or taste…. mayonnaise… clogs…. windmills… dikes… pornography… drugs… personalities…
    I do have a mild level of respect for the national football team.. but only in a sporting context.

  • Knopnix

    I have to move to NL soon and this news + comments scared the shit out of me. God help me

  • dan

    you are so right mate!!!
    thought i was the only epat that has experienced all this….and yeah, why they make us justify our answers!?!

  • Mark Reds

    spot on!….dutch r very arrogant!

  • Mark Reds

    dutch are extremely rude people and yes they behave like spoiled little school kids!

  • Mark Reds

    they like to blame the weather for everything too…..but yeah, all expats i know feel the same way jd, and so do i!

  • Markreds

    spot on mate!

  • Markreds

    yeah right! …worked in those countries too and people are certainly not rude like the dutch!

  • Markreds

    dutch are rude & arrogant, period

  • Anonymous

    Isn’t it funny when people from the island of chavs (UK) moan about other countries. The UK is a dump. A dump full of obese chavs.

  • smulders

    As a Dutch person living in China I accidentaly stumbled upon this news item and it made me think. Am I really such an ignorant? and are we that chauvinistic?

    I think it is a good thing to hold oneselve a mirror and reflect on how we behave and how this can be interpreted by others. What I can confirm is that Dutch are a very individualistic. My colleagues here in China call their families every day, I call them once a week. Also about the language, the Dutch language has very limited degradations in opinions. For example: something is Good, or Bad.. there is litte in between. Although Dutch is a low-context language, bodylanguage is quite important for these nuances.

    I am not making up excuses or covering up the common attitude of the Dutch people and the society in general, numbers don’t lie. Over the years the Dutch society really ‘hardened’ and became less social. In fact, I was also accused of this multiple times.

  • Alex

    I don’t quite agree with this article. The Netherlands is not the worst place I have lived in and the fact that the top 4 winning country are all English speaking is a strong signal that these results are clearly biased.
    All my expat friends love living in Amsterdam and although the Dutch have a rather poor reputation (especially abroad) they make life here very easy for foreigners.
    Maybe the fact that they all speak fluent English is another reason for them always being so miserable about the fact that no one wants to learn Dutch.

    I am happy to see Germany in there, even if only in 10th place 😉

  • Mark

    i’ve lived in holland for 20 years and speak the language fluently without an accent. dutch people think i’m dutch. and STILL i don’t feel like i’ve fit in and become part of the culture. like anywhere, you can find friendly and polite people, even in holland. unfortunately, you have to look a lot harder here to find them.

  • AmstExpat

    You don’t know what you are talking Alex; if you are still in Netherlands, go a little bit outside Amsterdam, you will see the difference and count how many Dutch friends you have.

  • Student AMS

    “Doe maar normaal, dan doe je al gek genoeg” is an old fashioned (calvinistic) Dutch expression, that I’ll translate very clumsy in “Behave normal, because that is already crazy enough”!

    This sums it up for me!

    Expat, studying for 4 years in Amsterdam, love my school but that’s where is ends.

  • Umijuskovic

    I love this place! Nothing wrong with the Dutch…..dont be such haters!

    Btw, am not Dutch and I ve been here (in NL) for 12 years now…..

  • Summerdazy

    Lets just say I’m not surprised 😉

  • Nerdyword

    Don’t let this worry you. My boyfriend and I lived there for a year and loved every minute of it. We found the Dutch to be direct for sure, but not rude. We made lifelong friends there and will always look back on it as one of the best years of our lives.

  • Nerdyword

    I’m a Canadian who lived in Amsterdam for a year and I loved every minute of it. Likewise, I loved the time I spent in France, despite hearing how rude the French are. I think if you’re open and friendly people will generally be open and friendly in return. If you expect otherwise, that’s probably what you’ll get whether you’re in Holland or Canada or wherever.

  • Marc

    Hahahaha…. Like it is possible to miss the brits on holiday! im not dutch but Laurie come on!! Brits in foreign countries on holiday…. They are the worst.

    And what about football hooligans in the uk? The teen pregnancy is in no other country as high as it is in the uk. Have u ever heard about riots in dutch towns like the ones last year in you’re country!

    Dont think you are in the possition to judge the dutch!

  • Anne

    On behalf of the dutchies I’d like to apologise… Even for me it seems a hard society sometimes, and I’m very dutch (straightforward and rather a loner). There are friendly people here though, it just might take you some time. We’re a quite closed comunity, even amongst ourselves and the rudeness you see is mostly the mask with wich we protect ourselves from having to open up and leave our shelves. I agree some of us are plain rude… And some of us will close you in their hearts for ever if you give it a chance.

  • Thierry

    I’m born and raised in Amsterdam and I loved reading how most expats think of me and all my fellow nationals. The expats I know must be very good actors for not giving me this feedback. I hope that all you people with bad experiences at least learned to appriciate your own country more after having to life in my terrible country. 😉

  • Nick

    I’m actually quite surprised that people are so anti-Dutch. OK, so it’s hard to learn our language, but I don’t know any Dutchman who’s not willing to speak english (unlike the French, Germans and especially Spanish people). It’s just how much effort you make to make friends. If you like you can have a great time here. We will be happy to welcome you.

  • Eddie

    Mayonnaise,clogs,windmills,dykes,drugs,personalities are all the reasons why its good.

    ‘They’re simpleton demeanor’…. this sentence is a total contraction in itself.

    Think before you type.

  • Matthijs

    Bunch of whinging expats turned into dutch folks, complaining about this that and the other. Welcome to the netherlands you bunch of outcasts `

  • Michael (van de VK)

    I have read over 50 of these posts here and I feel I now have a pretty good idea and can form some type of coherent response. First of all I have been living in Amsterdam since August as part of my ‘year abroad’ Erasmas placement (I study Dutch at a university in London) and I study Dutch taught programs at the University of Amsterdam. I came here with an open-mind but it didn’t take me long to become constantly infuriated with the Dutch incessant ‘rudeness’. For example, many Dutchies tend to cycle side-by-side on a cycle path when they know people want to pass, and when you ring your bell they sometimes won’t budge and give you a ‘dirty look’. Also, walking along the pavement and you see bikes parked in the middle of it so you have to walk around the bike. Furthermore, being in a bar and instead of saying “excuse me” or placing a hand on your shoulder and gently moving you out the way you are just pushed (not too hard, mostly!). Despite the above my views have changed somewhat. First of all the best thing you can do is intergrate. I speak Dutch most of the times and watch Dutch TV etc. When I speak to Dutch people they are facinated to discover that I am learning Dutch and want to know more (first steps of getting to know someone). It’s taking a long time to make friends here but it’s happening albeit slowly. Now what I stated above concerning the ‘rudeness’ I ran past a few Dutch friends. They say that cycling side-by-side is not rude and that if you want to pass you should ring your bell gently, maybe smile and say “Mag ik inhalen?” and that should work. The parking of the bikes in the middle of the pavements – their reaction to this again is that it isn’t rude and that at least it’s visable for you to walk around it. What I am trying to say is that you have to remember it’s a cultural thing, and if you’re riased in this way then you don’t know any different and as far as the Dutch are concerned it’s not rude. I won’t walk about queues because to be fair that’s mainly a British thing. There is the attitude in many places here that the shop or bar is doing you a favour by serving you but maybe that’s more to do with the Dutch sense of equality. In this regard I don’t act as though i’m a customer who is always right but instead act politely and that way I the response is friendly. When people are rude to me in shops, which doesn’t happen often (i’ve encounted more rudeness in London) then I tell them calmly in Dutch that they are rude and explain why this is so. It takes a lot to embarrass the Dutch but pointing out their flaws in their own language, and backing it up with evidence works every time. I cannot stress enough how important mastering the language is and it makes such a huge difference! Although some Dutch people are rude, British too, bare in mind that as I said before it’s a cultural aspect and when you are angry and shout at a Dutch person because of their rudeness then they are normally a bit surprised and think you’re a bit mad. In spite of all this I do think the pushing people to get past is a bit rude but then again maybe it’s the sense that because the intention behind the push isn’t meant maliciously then you shouldn’t consider it as rude. Think of the positives. Customer service doesn’t bend over backwards (I have found it polite for the most part, I mean in the UK the shop assistants don’t say “goeie morgen” and “fijne dag”) but you save money as you don’t tip. Also the cycling is fantastic. The canals are great too especially in the summer and it’s just a less stressful life here. I hoped this has helped although I feel I haven’t fully explained myself although I think most Dutchies will know what I mean and side with me :)

  • Jaime

    I can really relate to some of these issues. I think it is not hard to believe people are ‘cold’, neither is it hard to believe people are rude. However what I do not understand is comments like ‘and they ask me stupid/ignorant questions about my country’. I come from Rotterdam and study in Madison, Wisconsin. I so often get the same questions about Amsterdam/drugs/prostitution. I do not blame people for asking because no matter what age, how educated, or how polite people are, these are simply stereotypes.

    Neither do I think complaining is what makes a happier person. Whoa, I can’t believe some people actually wasted/accepted living 7 years in misery. In some situations you could have perhaps taken initiative and show your dutch colleagues what being friendly/polite/hospitable/etc. means to you. There is a chance you might have had a nicer time.

    That said, again I do agree with many comments made here. When I lived in Spain, I was overwhelmed with the kindness of some people I met, same here in the US and I missed that at times back home. Personally, I LOVE meeting people from all over the world and always have a genuine interest in their life stories. I therefore hope that those with negative experiences and those who read this and are now scared to go to Holland, know that with some luck and some ‘taking-matter-into-your-own-hands-attitude’, you could maybe avoid feeling miserable in Holland! :)

  • Rickkane

    There are good things and bad things about living in the Netherlands for sure. In terms of how the Dutch see general interaction between people in their daily lives, this video, to me, shows the reality of how most big city Dutch people are. It is actually from a national ad campaign calling out rude behavior as a way to get people to change.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QUfYbvAz9k

  • humanbeing

    ha ha pornography? ever been to the Valley? most porn is US made…

    as for the rest… after reading your response it appears every country has full-on idiots, an opinion about a country, a culture, a person is not ‘one-size-fits-all’… makes life that more interesting and some people that little bit more open minded

  • humanbeing

    unlike this statement of course…

  • Heppwalker

    I moved to NL 14 years ago and have never looked back. Go with an open mind. There is a lot of red tape and things are different than the UK but the biggest mistake you will make is to expect to be like the UK. I see a lot of big groups of brits in Amsterdam visiting, so make sure people know you are here and living her and not just a tourist. I have learnt to love the Dutch, married one and have a daughter who prefers speaking Dutch than English to me – but hell – so what. Enjoy your time in the Netherlands.

  • Ludwig Fleck

    This proves yet again that English Canada (so excluding Quebec) is the northern cultural and economic extension of the United States of America! This survey has nothing to do with the Netherlands. About Americans expatriated in the Netherlands, should they make the effort of learning the language and integrating the culture, which is often far from being the case after several years of living in the country, they would have far more friends and acquaintances. Those who are depicting a bad working culture and lazy people in the Netherlands should remember that the country remains Europe’s most productive one, per worked hour, and that the salaries and social advantages, such as, for me, two months and a half of holiday a year, are among the best. Who wants to work in the US with two weeks of vacation a year and poor social advantages? Not me after six years in the Netherlands!

  • http://www.facebook.com/afewyards Thierry Michel Philippe Kleist

    Hmmm, let’s see.. didn’t the expats have a 30% discount on their taxes in the netherlands.. and we’re the ones getting rich.. right

  • S_nijland

    Useless? yeah maybe because we learn English, German, French and Spanish

    only in NL and 50% BE? Try: Suriname, Aruba, Curaçao, Sint Maarten, parts of Canada, parts of Germany, Indonesia, even it is spoken quite frequently in the US and in Australia… ooh and how about South Africa.

    You speak of horrendous or impolite behavior that shocked even the Dutch, I just call that human, it happens everywhere in the world, sorry you were a victim of that, but to blame a culture?!

    I am Dutch (you figured), and I know our behavior is considered rude very often. We do separate our work from our personal lives, we have colleges and we have friends and rarely do they mix. That is why we might come across as closed. I work with expats on occasion and befriended some, but with most I only work with on a professional basis.

    We are also straight forward in our feedback. We are thought from a young age to voice our opinions even if it is to a senior position. No matter what titles you have, what educational background or how much time you spend on your work, if someone mentions your work is not good, and you disagree, then with all your titles and knowledge you should be able to win that argument. If you can’t, don’t take it personally but take it professionally. We deal with that all the time.

    I know Britain is famous for its polite behavior (well even that changed in London and most towns) so it must have been quite a contrast for you and it is understandable you get upset with it.

    We also learn that if there is something we need or want we are mainly responsible for ourselves to get it. This gets our of hand with a few people, but most certainly not our entire culture.

    And about the tax… we are famous for it, did you not figure this out before you came here?

    You get frustrated when we show of our orange colors (even on holiday) during a wold cup or our Queens day, on holidays or memorial & liberation day… are we so different then other nations? Its a human thing.

    My guess is you just found a bucket to put all your frustrations into rather then looking at yourself, opening your mind and adapting, discussing and working it out. Is this reply too straightforward or would you call it rude?

  • dutchie

    You are correct that we are closed, we distinct our professional lives from our personal, colleagues from friends. It is also true that a study is not always good enough and jobs are not guaranteed. The Dutch really value pro-active mindset, a good portfolio, good vocal qualities and it also helps if you have a network with people and businesses in the industry. For a foreigner it is really hard to live up to the standards most Dutch companies have.

  • dutchie

    They measured by:
    where it’s easiest to befriend locals
    – because of our split profesional / personal culture the Dutch wouldn’t score very high

    learn the language
    – naturally all English native countries have the benefit, its a poor target.
    It should be about how adaptable the country is in its communication, the Dutch grow up speaking at least 2-3 languages.

    Fit into the new culture and integrate into the community.
    – We have a multi-cultural society, it is easy for people to join communities that fit their culture, but hard to really become part of the native dutch culture. I also think this is a poor target for a study on this subject.

  • dutchie

    yes this is a very 3D comment

  • http://twitter.com/Grolubao Grolubao

    I love Holland, but I realize I will never integrate in the culture. It’s funny that I like Holland but I don’t like the Dutchies and Dutch culture. In fact I’m shocked and surprise by it’s economical status, since their services basically suck. Starting from bad service in restaurants, cafes, supermarkets, plumber, you name it…

  • Federico

    Only people at a certain level gets it straight the way (manager level or above), or when NL is calling you to come work, if you just come to NL on your own you will NOT get the 30% rule…you should get informed before opening your mouth :)

  • Vladimir Lazarenko

    I totally disagree. Lived here for almost 11 years now, traveled all across EU, it’s quite hard to find more open-to-the-foreigners people.

    Learning local language helps a lot. And if you don’t want to – well.. Go try living in Russia speaking only English 😉

  • Vladimir Lazarenko

    I live in Dieren, a middle of nowhere. For 10 years now. I have a LOT of Dutch friends, I have no problems communicating, I have no problems going out, having parties at home and in general leading a normal social life.

  • Vladimir Lazarenko

    So should you. 30% rule has nothing to do with being a manager. I got one being a 1st level helpdesk engineer. Nowadays I own a company here and pretty much all my expat employees have 30% rule.

    Learn Dutch, read laws.

  • Ayni

    Yeah, sure, all expats here just accidentaly meet a wrong people… Come on !

  • http://profiles.google.com/aabaptista Anderson Baptista

    Hi Anne, I had such a great time while I stayed and worked a little in The Netherlands (1998), that I often tell my friends that the dutch are probably the most “latin” people outside latin america, referring to how welcoming people were with me. Some of them even treating me as if an old friend that have been away for a while.

  • Locas30

    Latin peopleeeeeeeeeee????????? oh please … maybe you lived here for a month … they’re not warm … and treated you like old friend???????? helloooooooo maybe you were in other country.

  • Jake

    Despite the fact that many people speak English, if you intend to live in The Netherlands, you’d best learn Dutch. People will appreciate the effort, even though some will balk at the slightest mistake. Ignore those people. And read The UnDutchables, it will explain a lot of things to you about your neighbors.

  • marc

    Wow, the text on this page is so true. That really sums up my experience with Dutch people … 1 5 years ago, Amsterdam was the place to be. Now it seems that the Dutch have become extremely racist, lazy, dishonest, inconsiderate, and very very greedy. And somehow nationalism has gone through the roof in these past few years. How can you be proud of a country like that? I would be ashamed to be a Dutch citizen these days. I’m glad Canada doesn’t force people to assimilate, and harrass people who come from a different part of the world. (even Muslims!!!!! Amazing, isn’t it!)

  • el_el

    Are you kidding or trolling? Because for sure you cannot be serious

  • el_el

    So basically you’re argument is “since their culture is to be rude, hence it’s normal and not rude”? It be fine argument if it was just some forgotten cow farm. But it’s a country which has pretenses to be considered European.

  • el_el

    Typical Dutchie’s way to get through live is:
    – go to college, not to ambitious, having M.Sc. is for dumb expats, Dutchies don’t need that, HBO is more than enough..
    – take sabbatical year at expense of parents
    – get work through parents or friends connections
    – after working 2-3 months get “severe depression”, which means that they’re not working, but still getting 80% of they salary
    – bum out for 2-3 years on expats’ expense (since they are the ones dumb enough to actually do any work here)
    – go back to work for few weeks, complain how their boss in now foreigner, raging how they should all go to their countries and not steal your jobs
    – get fired, with your unemployment benefit go bum out in LLoret del Mar
    – repeat. profit.

  • el_el

    If by “open-to-the-foreigners” you mean, open to scamming them, then you’re absolutely right.

  • Mystical

    almost 10 years in the netherlands. i don’t see the dutch as rude, they are just straightforward, they speak what they think and don’t take it personally. i guess many people are too sensitive. but then again i’m an ‘individualistic’ type so i fit in well in the netherlands =)

    on the other note, i cannot stand too much (fake) friendliness in many english speaking countries and the culture of always wanting to belong to a group. that just suffocates the hell out of me.

  • Eduardo

    Everything else can be tolerated, but offering only bread for lunch is the most unfriendly behavior ever 😉

  • kat

    I saw a totally different side to Holland, when I was studying in Utrech a few years ago. the education was all in dutch, and i didn’t know a single word. My class mate took turns in taking notes for me in english during seminars, and explaining as much as they could so i didn’t feel left out! I was truly amazed how friendly and helpful they was towards me. And i even passed the semester!

  • EK

    Are you sure you are referring to the Netherlands?

  • Asd

    My dear B.O. you’re totally right.

  • PtbD

    You should come over to see for yourself. Don’t judge before you’ve seen the Netherlands (and not just Amsterdam) with ur own eyes, u dipshit

  • Serge

    In Canada/USA you sink or you swim…pros and cons…..in the Netherlands we have a tremendous floating device so you do not have to swim….social security, national health care, free education and so on…..for the last 30 years we have experienced ‘Mediterranean’ people (ab)using the floating device to the extreme and not adapting/integrating at all. Not even learning the language and not a single inch of gratefulness or gratitude. In stead they bite the hand that feeds them….that is why we turned so nationalistic.

  • Vincent

    drug addicts and homosexuals are not normal and you are a normal professional? Oh you are a muslim from Turkey? Okay now I understand your opinion.

  • Jos

    Yeah, as if the Spaniards could try better English…

  • Anne

    nope he meant dutch people are rude and they have no idea that they are rude.

  • Anne

    thanks for fortifying the poll that dutch are unfriendly :)

  • http://profiles.google.com/aabaptista Anderson Baptista

    I was lucky then… or maybe I’m a really nice person to be with and everyone wants me around. Now I may be trolling.

  • Tom

    The Dutch are wonderfully warm, hospitable people …if you are white, have money and are only sticking around for a few weeks or months. The farther away you are from those 3 criteria ? The uglier they can get.

  • Ania_pl

    yes, because you are such a dramatically uneducated nation that you NEED expats (hence the 30% tax rulling to attract educated people to come to this country) to work hard and sponsor (from the remaining 70% income tax) your Dutch wifes,so they can spend the entire life at home, laying on the sofa, “bakkie doen met vriendinetjes”, attend cupcakes workshops and posts stupid pictures of it on FB, and at the end they will call it “taking care of children” as the reason for not working. Oh wat hebben het jullie druk! 😉

  • goshdarnit

    yes your right to be nationalist… its not like Dutch history shows occupation of other countries, where they force their language and culture on other countries… damn those foreigners for then coming into the Netherlands to take those shit jobs and stimulating the economy, didn’t they learn from the oppressing societies we created for them!

  • Tequila Rifa

    I agree with AllAtSea for the most part.the same std set of questions which were posted above and plus “So, do you want to live here for ever?”
    I mean, hello? you dont even know me and I’m an expat here , taking my time out to travel, meet people, explore diff cultures…I dont know where I will be forever.

    About making friends, I do speak reasonable enough Dutch but in the 4 yrs I have been there , there is no Dutch person I know whom I could call friends.
    One funny incident I had was that of a dutch woman at my yoga class complaining of being in Sweden and how the swedes werent friendly, didnt want to be friends with her blah blah…
    and I;ve lived in Sweden so I know its not at all like this in Sweden.

    conclusion: when you are living in your own backyard, for most times you dont have the need to look out for new friends since you have everything / everyone you need here.

    customer service is plain 0 in this country; no concept of it whatsoever.
    The cheapness / stinginess of Dutch people is know – even they joke about it themselves…

    one needs to be careful in this country as expat as you dont get treated in the same way or fairly by most local institutions..makelaars [ the worst of all] amongst others…

    from my own story, I was charged for not showing up at the doctor even though the appointment was cancelled well in time and when I threatened to call my lawyer, they said they would not charge me for it.

    no country is perfect in the world, each with its pros and cons…just like humans…if you dont like it somewhere, move on!

  • Tequila Rifa

    I agree with AllAtSea for the most part.the same std set of questions which were posted above and plus “So, do you want to live here for ever?”
    I mean, hello? you dont even know me and I’m an expat here , taking my time out to travel, meet people, explore diff cultures…I dont know where I will be forever.

    About making friends, I do speak reasonable enough Dutch but in the 4 yrs I have been there , there is no Dutch person I know whom I could call friends.
    One funny incident I had was that of a dutch woman at my yoga class complaining of being in Sweden and how the swedes werent friendly, didnt want to be friends with her blah blah…
    and I;ve lived in Sweden so I know its not at all like this in Sweden.

    conclusion: when you are living in your own backyard, for most times you dont have the need to look out for new friends since you have everything / everyone you need here.

    ABOUT CUSTOMER SERVICE: hmmm..what?
    customer service is plain 0 in this country; no concept of it whatsoever.
    The cheapness / stinginess of Dutch people is know – even they joke about it themselves…

    once being out for a brunch in a good place in the city centre [ was relatively empty that morning]…I asked for extra toppings [olives, tomatoes, onions etc etc] on my omelette and offering to PAY for it the waitress answered NO. they couldn’t do it.
    I mean, how long / how much effort would it take to add these extra toppings in the omelette

    if this is how a good place treat their customers (on a non busy day) its a shame.
    we never went back to that place every again in the hague.

    MEDICAL SERVICES:…
    the medical service in this country is a joke:

    paracetamol is the only medicine they know of.

    my gf had a sprained ankle from sporting accident and was rushed to a hospital in Delft and they refused to even give her first aid since she didnt have an appointment!
    she was in pain but wasn’t given any pain killers or anything for 3 hours and then they gave her paracetamol

    WATCH YOUR MONEY:
    one needs to be careful in this country as expat as you dont get treated in the same way or fairly by most local institutions..makelaars [ the worst of all] amongst others…there are horror stories about makelaars on almost every expat site

    the locals have ingenious schemes of taking money out of your pocket and will fight for 5 cents of their own.

    from my own story, I was charged for not showing up at the doctor even though the appointment was cancelled well in time and when I threatened to call my lawyer, they said they would not charge me for it.

    no country is perfect in the world, each with its pros and cons…just like humans…if you dont like it somewhere, move on!

  • Tequila Rifa

    the NL also has 0900 nos for the siliest things and they can charge you anywhere from10 cents to 45 cents / min plus extra costs to call from mobile.

    plz revert to some of comments above for naother point of view.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002010598663 Fatemah Mafi

    I have emigrated from the UK to live in the Netherlands. I have found the general Dutch populace, on the whole, to be rude, pushy and blunt. I get cigarette smoke blown in my face daily from people walking in front of me, customer service is non-existent, and queuing is truly beyond people here. Last week, I helped a young woman load her pram onto the train (I’m also female) and the men actually pushed past us – and whilst queuing may be a British thing, chivalry has never proven to be exclusively British. I have never had problems integrating in France, Italy, Spain or Germany, however Holland is an entirely different kettle of mackerel. Luckily, I work at an international organisation with a mixture of expats and Dutchies (albeit ones who have travelled a lot, or lived elsewhere for long periods) where people are, for the most part, very friendly.

  • Lusky

    I’ve been living here for almost 4 years now. The system, education, research facilities and people everything is comfortable. I visited almost 12 countries now (European countries), still I find Netherlands is the best among. Being an expat, it is very difficult to survive in a non-english speaking country, but I never felt that I cant live here without speaking dutch. The people are quite helpful, friendly and they say hello and smile which we (expats) don’t find in most of our respective countries.

    If you like to live here or if you have to, then adapt to the dutch culture and respect their values. Or just leave this country and die in your shit, where you are supposed to be.

  • http://shlema.org.ua Andrii “Shlema” Degeler

    As an expat in the Netherlands, I do not agree at all. Here, in the North, I never experienced problems with socialization, either with Dutch people or within the expat community.

    As for the language, I remember a study that named Dutch the easiest language to learn for English speakers. And I can believe it. Also, you actually don’t have to learn it, as the vast majority of people speak it perfectly.

    Seriously, I have no idea how, for instance, France, where it’s pretty hard to live without the language, is better in terms of integration than the Netherlands.

  • Deurru

    Pointing out here: the Spanish try to speak English and try to understand it, but they are not good at either one or the other. On the other hand, the French simply refuse to learn English, and their accent and pronunciation is way worse than that of the Spanish people.
    If you think otherwise, you should go to both countries and try to speak to people on the street in English. Then see how many Spanish try to understand what you´re saying or try to speak the little English they might know, and how many French act the same way

    And I´ve lived in Groningen, being Spanish, and confirm it´s really easy to communicate with the locals, as they all have perfect command of English and make your life easy by speaking it when they realize you don´t speak Dutch 😉

  • Acurbo

    Sorry Vladimir, but you should also check facts before you speak.Just because it was so in your case doesn’t make it so every time.I was brought here to work 5 years ago and was told 5 different reasons why I didn’t qualify (I am an experienced IT professional).Finally I went above the (all Dutch) HR dept and was told I qualified.Needless to say,my 30% rule was still overturned by the same HR dept in the spirit of “keeping things fair”. This is within their rights do do so and they will excercise it as they see fit.

  • angy

    This is one of the most unfair article that I have ever read. I have lived in several countries and The Netherlands are still the most friendly, without any doubt!
    Dutch people take care about foreigners in a way that still surprise me; as international student, I felt loved in this country (much more than in my original country).

    The tolerance and friendly behavior of The Netherlands is coming from the past: The Netherlands has for centuries provided a safe haven for ethnic minorities fleeing from discrimination and persecution; many Jews from Spain and Portugal and Protestant merchants sought refuge in the Dutch Republic in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries. Dutch people emphasize the country’s cultural diversity, tolerance of difference, and receptiveness to foreign influences. And you see it everywhere: in the cities (mosquees, Asian or ethnic festivals, many many expats services…I do not have any of these in my original country), in the law, in the subsides, in the culture itself.

    On the contrary, one of the most recent problems of The Netherlands was represented by the dangerous effects of too much tolerance (that is, exactly the opposite of what is written in the article), because immigrants were starting to create problems (remember Theo van Gogh, for instance) and Dutch people started to feel afraid. So, what is this article speaking about?!

    Ps. Come on, France is much more friendly than The Netherlands?! Come on… I have not met one person (one!) that was satisfied by French behavior towards expats: for instance, even if they know English, they will not reply to you (one of my friends needed help, but eventually she was helped by a Chinese woman, because French people pretended her to speak French!).
    Really unfair this article, really unfair.

  • Kurtashak

    as they say in dutch medemogelijk gemaakt door de PVV (one of the coalition parties)

  • Blaze

    Forbes got it totally wrong….!

  • Azul

    I guess you’re an exception. And blind or naive. And try to live in the NL not being a student, but a real expat. Somehow people voted for it to be so unfriendly, there are many reasons for that. All the reasons you wrote are the contrary! Clearly, you know nothing about this society.

  • Azul

    Anne, I do know a few Dutch who are very nice and who I could even call friends (or close colleagues), but as a society, unfortunately, the rudeness and lack of closeness are the smallest problems. I see a cold blooded xenophobia and unfairness. My friend’s child heard at school that a boy wouldn’t befriend with her, because she was Polish!! 5 year old boy. Where does it come from? home. no comments necessary.

  • Azul

    I don’t see anything rude and arrogant in the statement. just an opinion that happens to be true and I bet, comes from someone’s experience.

  • Azul

    How would you explain then that the tax officers are not ALLOWED to speak English to foreigners? Try to move to the south from Randstad and speak English in a shop or even a city hall? I did try to feel good here, but I never felt welcome here. So, I do not intend to stay here much longer.

  • Azul

    so agree. I am Polish and hear the same questions from people whose level of education is much lower than mine, who’ve never been to ‘that part of Europe’, who know nothing about the political/historical/economical background even of their own country, and so on. We all know what I’m talking about. It is sad that each time I am being made to prove I am good enough (to talk to them, to study here, to…), and in front of who? Pathetic.

  • Flavio Martins

    I’m Portuguese I leave in Holland for some years here,love this country people are nice and I have made a career here,never been denied anything..so this article is in my point of view bulls$!^

  • Sydney

    Lived here for over 3 years and cannot stand the coldness, rudeness, lack of creative thought and stubborn attachments to ridiculous traditions. This is a country stuck in a time-warp. Don’t get me started on the haircuts!!

  • XDiesNatalisX

    Is “most unfriendliest” actually correct English?

  • Flavio Martins

    No…period..

  • Jason_Buttle

    Then how do you explain the comments by real expats who like the Netherlands and who disagree with this article? Are the experiences of these people also wrong?

  • Schotse inwoner

    What a shower of gobshite. I’ve lived here a year and a half (Delft + Leiden) and had a great experience. Sure, shopkeepers can be blunt when you are speaking English (by the standards of a native English speaker) but the second you switch to Dutch you will get much more consideration. As a native English speaker I had previously never learned another language until i moved here. Now my Dutch is decent. After learning the language I understand where a lot of miscommunications come from. English, by comparison to Dutch, is horribly overcomplex. There are millions of tiny nuances that change context. Dutch is much simpler and more direct. When you translate Dutch to English, there is less diversity. Just be appreciative of the fact that Dutch people can and WILL speak to you in English. It’s a courtesy you wouldn’t receive in Russia, Italy, France…. the list goes on.

    Prior to my learning Dutch, I found it hard to make Dutch friends. DUH… because who wants to speak another language than your own in YOUR country. Its a lot of effort and easier for them to make Dutch friends instead. Since I learned Dutch, I now have 3 people I can call friends and many more who invite me to parties/pubs.

    Now all you native English speakers do yourselves a favour… Imagine you are in UK/US/Aus and you’re working in a shop, and someone comes up to you and starts speaking Spanish and only Spanish. Can YOU be polite?

    Holland is a great place. You just have to learn Dutch otherwise you are seen as ‘just another expat who is here to make his name and bugger off after’.

    The cycling culture is great. The beers are superb (also belgian). Awesome cheese. Pretty women. Rich history. Not to mention, great job opportunities… even for expats.

    Don’t look a gift horse in the mouth.

  • Francisco

    The Netherlands is unfriendly to expats because there you can live and work only speaking English… In Germany, France, Spain this would never happen, C´mon!!!!! Go to Quebec in Canada only speaking English and see what happens! This research is MAD.

  • Sycomsimon

    They’re not allowed to speak English on the telephone. However Azul you can go to the Belastingdienst and they speak English to you there in person at the tax office. Like Vladimir I have also lived here for 11 years and sure I have some complaints although they can also be applied to any other country. It’s all in the attitude you roll with and everyone please remember if you don’t like, simple- get the fuck out and go somewhere you’ll actually have a life then you can come back and tell us all where you were lucky enough with a whiney attitude to get a life! Most likely somewhere you don’t speak the language and they all secretly don’t like your ass anyways :-) get over it by recalling the old adage: What you focus on increases.

  • Sycomsimon

    Acurbo you do not seem to know much.
    Number 1: you never let the HR department make any 30%ruling application for you. HR is a haven for halfwits!

    Number 2: Get a lawyer to do it
    Number 3: There are only two ways to get the 30% ruling. Either you were imported to work here ( like in your case, except you forgot rule 1&2 and should go get the 30% ruling and get a lawyer to sue the HR dept, if you have proof).

    and yes I had the 30% tax ruling for 10 years.

  • angy

    The difference between students and expats does not exist. The difference between me and you, yes, this exists.

    You did not argument. Saying “All the reasons you wrote are the contrary” is not an argument. Prove it!

    I think you have some personal reasons to think Dutch people are not friendly, so I think it is a problem of you.

    If I do not know this society, how do you explain this survey (from Forbes again) of 2 years ago??
    http://www.forbes.com/2008/07/25/best-expat-postings-forbeslife-cx_vr_0725realestate_slide_9.html?thisSpeed=undefined

    The Netherlands are among the first 6 countries in the world to be an expat. Show that the contrary is correct.

  • Dfdfdf

    I love the way the Dutch expect people to integrate, but will not provide an affordable and effective language course. They come up with “NL2” which isn’t even at the same level as a GCSE in the UK and that is supposed to help you integrate!

  • Dazdoo

    What “national health care”? Having to pay €200 a month for basic health care for your family when you are extremely low paid does not indicate a “tremendous floating device”.

  • Dpr2010

    Well said Anne! Actually, Matthijs post doesn’t actually make much sense “whinging expats turned into Dutch folks”? “Bunch of outcasts”? It seems that unfriendliness has managed to override sense!

  • Freddreamer

    Yes that is one thing. Since moving over here, my Dutch wife and I absolutely adore the UK and are moving back as soon as possible.

  • Dirk Jumbo

    Dutch is not actually a difficult language to learn. It is easier than German, for example. Many Dutch people might be willing to speak English, but quite often you are not as fluent as you think. I worked in a multinational company and one of the HR staff was awful at English, despite the fact her job description demanded she spoke English fluently. The only difficulty in learning Dutch is the lack of adequate courses. NL2 is complete nonsense.

  • Dazzydog

    Zeeland is a lovely place to live. Beautiful scenery and wonderfully friendly people. I speak as an English northerner!

  • Dimik

    I think NL got so low rating because of the IND

  • Lenka

    Last 10 years I live in the Netherlands and I like this country less and less. Huge holes in the system, bad health care (no prevention) and two-faced nature of Dutch are very disappointing….

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=681248885 Vanessa Olive Tree

    ” Take those shit jobs” are not racist…? I’m sure that you are dutch!!

  • Leticia_vasquez

    My spanish husband and I have lived here 9 years, had 2 kids, and tons of friends, expats and Dutch alike. We love it here, and can’t imagine ever leaving.

  • Leticia_vasquez

    I wouldn’t say they are a friendly bunch, that’s a bit of a stretch…but I do love living here. I think it’s easy to imagine how easy it would be to be an expat in your country of origin, after all, we all know the social/unspoken cues in our countries. But all countries have their annoying things, to be sure, that we often aware of when going about our daily lives.. Of course, there are some countries you just can’t take (mine is Egypt). Anyway…this year’s findings are totally different. Keep smiling Angy!

  • Catalina

    This article is based on nothing objective! 80% english native speakers? …I’m not and I’m an expat here. Certainly it has its good and bad things (like the weather) but come on!
    This is paradise for expats: Which other country offers you to pay taxes ONLY on 70% of your income? The answer is NONE!…I’m very happy with my 30% ruling and the extra euros per month on my bank account. Not to mention my comfy apartment for a reasonable price (compared to same level of comfort in Paris, London, Rome, Stockholm and Atlanta – where I’ve also lived). Moreover, you can live for a whole life here communicating purely in english and it’s close to many countries in Europe with a great hub called Schiphol with direct flights to many destinations in the 5 continents…This “study” must gotta be KIDDING me! …April’s fools is in one month from now..not yet!

  • Angry’s a cock

    Shut up you twat and learn English. You like being a student in the Netherlands so you can study for ever and never have to work. You were provided an opinion so stop looking for a fucking argument and reflect on what was said. It is at times unpleasant here but in the main ok. But I would expect it to be when I pay fifty thousand euros a year in tax, I’m paying for it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=518460164 Bodie Van Betuw

    umm… do you know what you’re talking about… Canada is not America… we have national health care as well and a social net. Although I am sure there are many differences to the Netherlands. We do believe in taking care of each other here as well – of the mindset ‘help people help themselves’.

    That being said I lived in the Netherlands for 7 months and loved it. I did learn from many locals the stereotype being presented here… but I never experienced it in a negative way. Blunt does not mean you are cold. Although I am aware there is much tension over the past few years with finding a way to live amongst the cultural differences that do exist from new immigrants, by and large my experiences were great.

  • seriously?

    this is bull!!! I have lived in The Netherlands for 12 years and that place is beyond amazing. The dutch are so nice and nice, and they speak english really well!
    This article is a bunch of lies!!

  • Anonymous

    Absolutely ridiculous article! I do not believe a word of it. I have been an expat in Denmark and the Netherlands. Netherlands is friendly by a million miles. Danish can be very racist people and ignorant to foreign cultures and practices. They force-feed Danish language to all expats forcing them to learn. There is no choice and Danish is the toughest language to learn in a short period. Didn’t anybody even take this survey to Denmark?

    Probably because small countries like Denmark does not have many expats, it is ignored. Netherlands has a big chunk of expats so gets some attention.

  • Jane doe

    if it’s so unfair then why all the backlash? this place is a trap for desperate ex-pats looking for a good way out. go somewhere you’ll be appreciated!! i’ve lived here for one year and have never hated a place so much and the attitude of the people at work. The Dutch are the laziest bunch of bastards i’ve ever met.

  • Kayt

    I read about the Dutch being lazy and someone having a very hard time working here…I really sympathise, I was lucky enough to be able to quit my job. However, shopping this morning in a small local town I was struck again by the rudeness and complete lack of customer service; I was followed around the shop as if a shop-lifting
    threat after I had said I was happy looking around. No wonder the Dutch have trouble with foreigners as I’m sure they hate to be faced with alternative/better approaches to business and service attitudes.

  • 123

    I have been living in the NL for almost 15 years.
    Nothing is black and white, but in general I would say that the Dutch tolerate you, but they don’t hide the fact that they don’t like you.

  • L.S.

    Must be that, cus I personally think the dutch are not that bad comparing to british per say. I never had major issue with dutch and as long as you show bit of interest in the language and trying to adapt to the country rules, i dont see any issue. And honestly, who says otherwise doesnt understand that if you pick a foreign country to live in, you should live it the same way like they do, and the language is necessary!

  • Denrik

    Holland is nice for a short visit for outsiders. But after 6 months plus, the superficial tolerance/liberal feel is exposed as a deeply intolerant political and social culture. Mean spirited and ill at ease with itself. I was delighted to leave after 3 years.

  • Pjgecmendes

    according to geert hofstede holland is a feminine caring society with an average uncertainty avoidance.Instead of regarding foreigners as dangerous they see them as ridiculous.It is also very individualistic like the english countries

  • Eric

    The Dutch live in a world of denial and if once they play to have a bit of self criticism is only to tell you what to think about them, they definitely have a mental issue, there is something with their genes that you can see it, they not even look sane and their behaviour and verbiage is a far cry from rational.

  • Pjgecmendes

    But the english speaking countries are even more IND

  • Pjgecmendes
  • Jh

    My old housemate who moved from his hometown in Twente to Utrecht had the same complaints, that it was hard to make new friends, drinks with colleagues could only be made via an advance appointment in the calendar, and felt the general public to be cold and unwelcoming. Come most weekends, he went back on the train to his hometown. I have only lived in Utrecht since emigrating, and found it very hard to make friends in my first two years, although once my language skills improved, and gained a better knowledge of Dutch society and current affairs, I found the locals a lot more welcoming. Still, I find when I travel into the countryside, the locals are far more friendly and welcoming (I was shocked at teenagers walking by, smiling and giving me a ‘hoi!’), and as with my former housemate’s experience, I see the coldness less as a Dutch problem, and more of an urban/rural divide. I do experience some unforgivable rudeness and bad manners, people seemingly unaware of anybody but themselves, and the way some Dutch will jump to defend this behaviour (as ‘directness’ or ‘honesty’) leaves a bad taste in the mouth for anyone who sees that behaviour for what it is. The situation is also not bettered by certain politicians who’s careers are based on pitting natives against non-natives.

  • Pjgecmendes

    a dutch tart told me about my failings in bed

  • Pjgecmendes

    how can you leave in holland? You can only live in it or leave it

  • Bert5656

    Some thoughtful comments here. I would add that Holland has some great people – but on the whole is unwelcoming and intolerant (except what it wants to tolerate) and rather xenophobic. I lived a few years there and was delighted to leave!

  • Mckroket

    The funny thing is is that I know quite a few Dutchies who themselves have an issue with the overall un friendliness of other Dutchies. It is not that they do not like foreigners ? It is that they do not like anyone outside their very narrow field of interest and understanding. I know several Dutchies in our village who come from other parts of the country ( Amsterdam, Breda ) and they can very much relate to what is being said here. Dutch are more ignorant and boring than racist and un friendly.

  • Julia

    Unfortunately I also agree with Forbes’ rating. I’ve been living in Rotterdam (and studying in Amsterdam) since one year and I have to say that Holland is the WORST place where I ever lived. Reading the comments below I was wondering isnt’it quite weird that so many people experienced the same bad feelings??? At the beginning I thought it was MY problem but then I realized that it wasn’t. It’s not a matter of the language ‘cause I can understand that if you wanna live here for a while you should learn Dutch at least a bit. And actually Dutch people have such a good English, as no other country in Europe I would say…but then you come across their culture, or better their lack of culture, their laziness at work, their inability to reason (they need a brainstorming also for selling you a bus ticket…), their lack of food culture, their TOTAL incapacity to have social relations, their narrow-mindedness, their tasteless and superficiality in everything…never saw so many people-at any age- playing with videogames on train/bus in place of reading… they don’t have any idea of what is customer service ‘cause simply they DON’T CARE…which is something that people usually mix up with tolerance…but it’s not, it’s just indifference….the less emphatic people I ever met… :(

  • Holgol

    I have never been in a country where people didn’t play with their phones on a bus or a train. And reading books? In what countries do people read books on a bus?

  • Anon

    Oh I so agree!! I’ve lived in 3 different parts of this country (central, south and Amsterdam) and I totally agree! I do speak the language, I do send my kids to Dutch school and I do have a horrendous time with the natives. :-((

  • Julia

    In all the countries where people know the meaning of the word ‘culture’….

  • Holgol

    Funny that you are not answering the question, but choose to gave an evasive answer.
    Please tell me, what is your glorious father land where people read books on the bus.

  • Julia

    It wasn’t an evasive answer, I ‘m sorry you didn’t get it. Also it wasn’t the main point in my post. Anyway I don’t know how old are you…but you can keep on thinking that playing videogames is the most intellectual thing human beings can do and you can also be proud of this superficiality. Then, as far as I am concerned, Dutch people can even switch their national anthem to the Super Mario Bros theme. I really don’t care. My point was that this superficiality and lack of culture results in a greater attitude of people within the society. And this attitude affects my daily life. When I look for explanations or further information with Dutch people the only answer they know is ‘I don’t know’ ’cause they are just not used to reason. There are so many other posts about that…check it out! Then, my glorious father land is Germany but reading is not such a weird activity, you know it’s quite widespread in so many other European countries…

  • Holgol

    Maybe you should have a quick look at the forum of Toytowngermany to find out how people, especially Anglo Saxons, think about your country. You will be surprised. (Not that I necessarily agree with everything they claim though.)

  • Julia

    Unfortunately for you all the posts here are related to the article published by Forbes which rates Holland as the most unfriendly country for expats and Germany among the top ten friendly nations. Then of course any country has people who don’t like it and I can understand that. If I had said I’m from France, what would you have said? Or from Italy, Spain or whatever?I believe I don’t need to explain to you each word I wrote cause there are so many other posts which support my arguments. So many other people experienced all the bad feelings I had when I came here. Are they all Germans? I’m sure they are not. So you can just ignore my post, honestly I dont’ mind.But does it make sense to you that 4069 people liked this article in Facebook???:) Adios!

  • Holgol

    Then I guess Germany did something wrong. Because in Forbes latest survey by expats about friendliness, Germany is nowhere to be seen. Nor is the the Netherlands. Not even in the unfriendly category.
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/bethgreenfield/2012/01/06/the-worlds-friendliest-countries-2/

  • Donaugh

    I got the impression that Jo-blogs was being sarcastic.
    Where’s your sense of humour?
    I’ve lived in NL for 12 yrs, speak Dutch & feel that I’ve integrated pretty well into my local comunity. I don’t have any complaints.

  • Smccormick

    Just to let you know,London gets less rain than Brisbane and Madrid….

  • Kamcha

    That’s very sweet of you Anne. I only wish you were here instead of all those people I met when first moved here.
    In the end, I have become so upset with the reality here I’m now in therapy for depression – IN DUTCH!!! – and that does not go very smoothly.. I guess it’s not uncommon here for a therapist to be getting impatient to the point of making the patient feel even worse afterwards..

  • Ghghghg

    Have you taken a pregnancy test?

  • Ghghghg

    “Die in your shit?” What?

  • Buster

    If I was you I wouldn’t. I was dragged here by my Dutch wife (literally wife, not a prostitute (Dutch wife = prostitute in some slang) and it is horrible. Consequently, marriage over.

  • Blambloo

    It’s ok Julia, Holgol just likes to argue. He hates the British because of their colonial past, He lives in the 19th Century.

  • Darren

    I suppose, as “unfriendliest” is the superlative and therefore doesn’t need the “most”, it should have read “most unfriendly.”

  • Jeroro

    if one ends their sentence with the word ‘period’, it is read as a fact, not as an opinion. Stating that word makes it arrogant of course!

  • Jeroro

    if one ends their sentence with the word ‘period’, it is read as a fact, not as an opinion. Stating that word makes it arrogant of course!

  • Tm Setzer

    I was just wondering if anyone has had the same experience as I have ? I have been living here for 27 years and according to the Ministry of Education ? I speak Dutch on a staatsexam 2 niveau but whenever I open my mouth to a Dutchie ? They get this look like they just saw a ghost or something. Some people think my level of Dutch is impressive and compliment me and quite a few think I am incomprehensible to the point where I cannot even wish someone a good weekend without it turning in to a major event. It is pretty frustrating. Does anyone else have the same experience ?

  • Brian Powell

    well i wouldn’t generalize “dutch” as a whole but here are some positive and negative moments i faced being in holland for four years .
    a) weather -sucks big time as it’s dark and rainy almost all the time
    b) people u meet in streets are mostly friendly as they say “hello” “dag” ,but once you do some business or work with them they will fcuk u over ,i was not paid for 2 months by a dutch white owner and paid lesssss on another (i was students there and work some part time ) also believe me IND (immigration there ) will put u as a list of “milking cow (money) or go back to your country type,no respect what so ever.
    c) tried to date but i knew if you ‘re a foreigner you should have pocket full of money or girls will not give you a shitttttt,well not trying to say all may b like that but was mine experience “no money no honey” situation all the time ,so dont expect “tender and love ” without going out bag pack full of cash $$$ .
    d) similar situation in metro and trams, 7 foot tall mature guys enter the metro and tram singing with beer cans in their hands and pockets giving you all those beer and cigeratte stink to your face and dont even bother to move even if other have to get out on the next stop,( though its kinda fun to watch them ).

    positive
    a) the atmosphere to roam around amsterdam was good any time walking or cycling along the cannels and tourist season were fun ( now i heard things have changed) ,not much violence .
    b) public transportation provided were good that u never had to depend on car wherever u go.
    c) i heard holland was better a little ago ,when it was prosperous and everyone were welcome ,the situation is diffrent now.
    in the end sorrry for the bad english , and i may go back again there to hang out for a while but not much than that .

  • Guest

    All the posts in favor of the Dutch are written by the Dutch themselves or their foreign partners, time will make the partners change their minds in the hard way.

    Some never learn, and some are too embarrassed to admit the fiasco mostly when children are involved, others simply needed a residence permit and had to swallow their own disgust. Some have been brought from abroad, its like accepted human trafficking and prostitution from both parts.

    It gives me the creeps just to imagine.

    That been said, the Dutch are in fact terribly jealous of the British and even “The Americans”.

    O-O how I would like that language to be mine!!!.

  • Holgol

    Yes, we are so jealous of British binge drinking obese chavs. And we are so jealous of the big spectacle of the London riots.

  • Holgol

    Although I should remember that not all the British are like that.

  • Fred Flange

    That is right. Some Brits are not obese chavs. A few are what we would call stuck up snobs.

  • http://twitter.com/Makaveli040 Uknown

    90% of the people here haven’t been in Holland, or know dutch people..they just like to judge..at least 80% of the people who been here say the dutch are amongst the friendliest they ever met.and the lazy comment, the Dutch are one of the hardest workers in Europe, just bcs some ppl on this site have worked in one company in the whole country, wich probably had foreigners too,they think the whole country is like that..fuck that, this article is full of bullshit and it’s just to make the U.S. look good again..only that Canada are the friendliest, i believe.

  • http://twitter.com/Makaveli040 Uknown

    the only friendly countrie’s mentioned are Canada and Spain…

  • http://twitter.com/Makaveli040 Uknown

    learn some about dutch history, they took country’s yes, but they didn’t let them speak dutch…otherwise, east of the U.S.A. would speak dutch now,indonesia would,etc etc…Same with culture…

  • http://twitter.com/Makaveli040 Uknown

    dutch people hardly have pizzeria’s here, they are mostly from Moroccan or Turkish people.(not bashing them cause i have no problem with any nation)I’m dutch and i dont see myself or many of my friends in this image u portray.maybe it’s like this in Amsterdam, because they are well known all over holland to be arrogant and harsh. and im not cussing u or being rude to u am i? and im 100% dutch.people just like to judge a whole country for what they experienced with a few people. ive been in france numerous times, i can also bash them how they are arrogant, dont wanna talk english and are rude on and off the road…i experienced this too, but i know not all the french are like this..

  • http://twitter.com/Makaveli040 Uknown

    even i as a dutch dont know where dieren is haha

  • http://twitter.com/Makaveli040 Uknown

    must of been a shitty workplace where u worked cause i never ever experienced this

  • http://twitter.com/Makaveli040 Uknown

    and isn’t it funny that while ppl say we only want them to speak dutch, many are here answering u in a normal way and IN ENGLISH.

  • Holgol

    I quite agree.

  • Kockatevjetra

    Fred Flange = imaginary character created by Peter Sellars.
    Holgol = Korean for “rapture bone”
    Trolls!

  • Putamadre

    that’s why so many are succesful and the university’s are amongst the best in the world,and holland has the smartest region in the world…typical bullshit what ur telling here…u obviously dont know shit

  • WestHam

    Netherlands one of the Best Country in the World to Live
    Netherlands best behaved country in EU
    Netherlands is the 8th best country to live in the world

    but still the most unfriendly LMAO yankee bullshit

    The dutch are wonderful lads…

  • Mckroket

    Yankee bullshit ? Seems like the so called Yankee’s are the only ones not complaining.

  • Mckroket

    100% of what you just wrote you pulled out of your ass. Get off your high horse it is not 1940 anymore. The master race mentality is out of style now. Didn’t you get the memo ? “damn u guys work hard” ? LMFAO.

  • Da3thing

    Dutch culture is raam prostitutie on a international level. They look very inviting and you think you will have a good time but in the end you need to keep one eye open and your hand on your wallet because a whore by any other name is still a whore.

  • Dutchie

    The article states that the countries rated most friendly are the countries “where it’s easiest to befriend locals, learn the language, fit into the new culture and integrate into the community.” Relating this to the Netherlands I can see why it’s rated low…
    Befriend locals is not easy when there are so many internationals you could befriend! Learn the language is hard, and unnecessary because almost everyone speaks English and is willing to talk to foreigners in English. Fit into the new culture and community can also be hard, because there are so many internationals in the Netherlands forming their own communities.
    I think the survey’s criteria should be adjusted. I think the Netherlands is very friendly to expats and therefore makes it easy for expats to form their own communitie, not learn the language etc. There is nothing wrong with that!

  • Darren

    The Dutch people who don’t speak English, or at least say they don’t speak English are actually the most friendly and helpful I have ever met! I’m English but speak Dutch and get on exceptionally well with my incredibly friendly and helpful neighbours here in Zeeland.

  • Bellagella

    sounds RIGHT.

  • smartass

    Well, well…what do we have here…so it’s not only the Dutch that are unfriendly? Maybe you harvest what you sow

  • smartass

    Well I’m Dutch…If you’ve noticed; Dutch people travel a lot trough the world. Bear in mind it is a small country but you’ll find them anywhere. I travel a lot as well and I’m very interested in cultures and societies and why people choose to do the things they do. And I agree, we can be quite blunt about it, but we mostly mean well. Just interest. And it is the other way around as well. For instance I meet a lot of Turkish people in Holland (to use the example) but if I’d offer them a beer, most of them get pretty angry and look at me as if I’m this ignorant person that doesn’t know anything; for example that Muslims don’t drink alcohol. But I can’t see from the outside if someone is a Muslim. And besides some Muslims do drink beer, so it can get pretty confusing both ways…

  • Holgolisanidiot

    So, because you have never been to a country where people didn’t play with their phones on a bus or train, such a place cannot exist? You seem to live in a delusional state Holgol.

  • Doobydoo

    You can’t really rely on a Forbes list to tell you anything. In another list they place Ireland in the top 15 richest countries in the world!

  • Calvin de Generous One

    Dutch so-called tolerance is of the psuedo variety because what it is based on is economics and necessity.
    A typical Dutchman will toss a coin 500 times before parting with it, hold up the door of any bar you as a group are about to enter rather than be the first in and perhaps have to order first, sleeps with a 5 kilo circular cheese next to the bed, whilst smoking Van Nelle roll-ups in his sleep and filling in lottery coupons at the same time.

    His bike comes before the wife and the kids are made to polish it twice a day and 3 times on a Sunday.

    When grandmother gets old she is either put into a storage facility or will sleep in between the man of the house and the spouse.

    For breakfast the freshly ladled Dutch ‘reuzel’ or pig fat will deck the crusts that if not eaten that morning at te latest will be fed to the dog.

    As a stranger you may at first be taken aback upon hearing the words I love you repeated in an endless mantra when you suddenly realise that your friend is speaking to himself in the mirror.
    After breakfast you get a small dessert made of 2 or 3 pieces of liquorice and you have to get on your knees and show gratitude for that gunk as everyone just loves the sheeeet.
    After you take your turn in the stone cold bath which was filled at 5.30 in the morning and is used by the entire house before you say a pray to Saint Calvin, I never found out who he was but I heard he was a tight bastard, then discover one of the family stole your coat, everyone smiles kisses you goodbye saying darrrrg, darrrggg, whatever that is, and you are almost out of the door but can’t help but overhearing them already talking about you and saying what a little shit or gaybo you are, wie is die rare buitenlander eigenlijk, wat doet ie.

  • Guest
  • Remus

    Hi guys,

    I read some of the comments and it seems to me that there is no ‘in between’ opinion. Almost all of them are either very good or very bad.

    I have been living in the Netherlands for about 1 year now, as a student, so I can’t say I really experienced the dutch way of life. However, I did find some particular things that I find rather interesting…

    So, I am Romanian and I will compare this society to the one I am used to and how it made me feel.First of all, I didn’t feel any discrimination for being Romanian since I got here, even though at least at a political level, we are not seen very well.

    Second, I would like to say that the Dutch are really friendly in ‘easy situations’ and are almost always polite (in stores, bars, while chatting, etc.). This made me feel like it’s an OK place for me in the first ~6 months of living here. However, after that, I started noticing that behind the apparent polite surface, the society is really cold. First of all, when trying to ‘fit in’ you can get close to them, but only up to a certain ‘surface’ level, beyond which I found it almost impossible to pass. One reason might be the language barrier but I’m not sure because I have friends of other nationalities. Furthermore, the society is deeply lacking empathy. I don’t know if this is a trait that also is valid in Dutch-Dutch situations but at least towards expats it’s always there. I have visited other countries like Italy or Spain and the difference is really big…

  • Tim

    Born in this country, lived in it my whole life( until now that is).

    I totally agree with a lot of comments here… The main problem here is the attitude. The dutch are nothing but selfish, unimaginative, rude, boring people.

    Dutch people tolerant?! HAHAHA dont make me laugh! Yes, The Netherlands claim to be a “tolerant, open minded country” . Yes, it’s charming at first, the nice smiles people give here. But believe me it’s all fake. Mostly they mean shit of it.

    Everything here is so self-proclaimed. The so called tolerance, directness, whatever.
    I’ve been to all parts of this shit country. It truly is one big fake.

    I love Spain, i love Italy. I love Hungary. There are so many countries i love. But this country, the country i was born and raised in, is DEFINITELY not one of them.

    Maybe i sound hypocrite because i’m a born dutchman. But i have only one thing to say:

    I’m ashamed of this country. Ashamed of the attitude. I’m moving away and when i’m gone please let this country sink below sea level…..

  • Sasha

    tee hee. Lovin the humour

  • Sasha

    what gets me is that the average nurse or doctor is also very unsympathetic here and miss important warmth and empathy for their patients

  • Sasha

    This article does not surprise me. I love holland for it’s progressiveness, and fantastic infrastructure and have been constantly boggled by the general mentality (let’s be honest there are good and bad in every race/nationality). However I have almost become racist since living here (15yrs), the behaviour of the average white middle-class Dutch person makes me sometimes feel disgusted to be white myself. So I’ve tried to understand this by looking into the history of this country and if one focuses on economics it all does start to make sense. It seems like Economics play an important role in this country more importance than social togetherness. Holland has always been a global trader, keeping a good face to make money but it was also a very aggressive empire builder which committed many human rights abuses, and was in fact the last to give up slavery. Counterfeiting (money and art) had an important economic base. Can we see a pattern here? When it comes to making money integrity and ethics disappear. Again look at World War II the Netherlands folded to Nazi invasion very quickly, although controversial it is an established fact that the Royal Family collaborated with the Nazis, as the administration was so good (a gift from Napoleon) jews were easily found, but they were also easily given up by the Dutch too, snitching became a way of life in WWII. Who was the wealthiest in those days = The Jews. Look at poor Anne Frank’s family, someone snitched on her the day before the end of the war.
    Again I love this country, unfortunately I have to conclude that the way many Dutch drive represents for me their general mentality: aggressive, thoughtless and unsocial , and finally I wonder if they must be jealous of the rest of us cos I think we enjoy life and each other so much more.

  • Sasha

    It’s based on quantitative data, can you provide more context to your criticism

  • Sasha

    Just read this, it’s about charitable contribution which is tax deductable and doesn’t really have context in this discussion about socialbility

  • Bella99

    I suggest expats take a look at the expat comments made about their home country before passing such rude judgement on the Dutch. We all come from cultures that are selfish, rude, closed, stupid, or unfriendly :)

  • Guest

    Did you live in the Netherlands during WWII? You seem to be an expert about the living conditions back then.

  • Guest

    Where does it say that those charitable contributions are tax deductible? Was this also tax deductible? http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2010/01/cash_for_haiti_broadcasts_rais.php

  • Guest

    According to this timeline the Dutch weren’t the first to abolish slavery, nor where they the last. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abolition_of_slavery_timeline

    Also typical for historical revisionism to blame the Dutch for the second world war. The Nazi bombarded Rotterdam. 800 people lost their lives and thousands lost their home. Hadn’t the Dutch not capitulated the Nazis would have bombarded Utrecht.

  • Silky B

    I once heard that one day a German had sex with a pig in the bum, and the next day it crapped out a Dutchman. Can anyone tell me if this is the true origin of the Dutch or is this just a myth?

  • http://www.facebook.com/aydogdu Tamer Aydogdu

    I lived in the Netherlands for 7 years and I can say that I like Dutch people but I don’t really like living there. Life is so inconvenient, usually boring, customer service in general is nonexistent.

  • Mark (Dutch)

    As a Dutchman i think i can say the Dutch are on average quite rude. We call it honnest and open, but to people who are raised learning to respect their pears this is often experienced is plain rude. Tourists who come the Netherlands expect polite people as they have seen and heard on tv and the internet. This due the fact that the Dutch are known for accepting gay people or other ethnic or non-ethnic minorities. This however is not true, for instance gay people are still made fun of, mostly by low educated members of this weird society. Also the Dutch carry an unexplainable hate against Belgians, “we” think they are dumb.

    Reading al this forums about the Dutch being rude, makes me wonder if they really know the Dutch. Most of the people who asked questions like: Why are the Dutch so rude? Mostly are tousrist who have visited Amsterdam, where people are to be found way more arrogant, ignorant and rude then in the rest of the country, this is odd because all big cities around the globe have citizens who are considerd more rude than the smaller cities/villages. I have travelled the world and have to say that on average the rude people live in big cities, you could see The Netherlands as one big city, everthing is nearby, the country is dynamic, people have to watch out for theirselves. If you are a pregnant women or old , and you are getting on a bus or tram, dont expect anybody to get up for you. I think this is an very very shamefull way of behaving and there is nobody to blame for this aditude, but themselves. I find myself getting in situations where i stand up to help someone and that someone is so supprised that he/she gives me a look that says: “wtf are you doing?!? are you a perv?!”. Being polite is considered weird in the Netherlands. I think fellow Dutch people will know what i am talking about.

    As a conclusion to my little story i would ask myself and you the question: what is rude? The Dutch people are considered unfreindly because of the expectations foreing people have of the great independant, well educaded and freindly country as we pretend we are. I think this is the Dutch society is the future, not a good way, an very bad way even.

    But i think what i am trying to say is the world is getting more selfcentered then ever, and the Dutch are an good example of what is wrong with that.

    Mark Lebbink, 18 years old.
    Born in a medium sized town, The Netherlands
    I would also like to excuse me for all my gramatical and spelling mistakes.

  • Eva

    Lazy? How come this small country is one of the richest in the world?

  • Eva

    LOL The dutch are extremely practical people. I have heard this many times; about the “push”. But if you look at it from their perspective. One is purposely standing in the way and blocking others from passing, why are you doing that? keeping others from their things. But yes, it is not to be rude.

  • Eva

    As someone who is nut Dutch. All I can say is that you envy them. You are an expat? I say move to Nigeria or Mexico or some other trigger happy nation.

  • Eva

    The medical system in this country is one of the best in the world. the reason why the doctors give you paracetamol is because in this country we are not busy making the pharmaceutical industry richer than it is. since we are not Americans we are not pumping our people full of pills. The doctor WILL NOT give you pills when you can just wait for a few days. Be greatful about that and stop complaining. I have been to many countries. And ooh how friendly people are. But a lot of these friendships are shallow. They say yes when they mean no!. They say things they do not mean and gossip a lot. I am not saying the Dutch don’t gossip, but they will give it to you straight.

  • Eva

    Thank you Shotse inwoner. i am not Dutch, but I love living here. English speakers don’t see how absolutely arrogant they can be. You think the whole world just wants to speak English the whole day? In the meantime you just sit here for years and move on. The Dutch are trying very hard. I have met people living here for 15 years, not one word of Dutch. Extremely annoying. Expats who hate it here I say move to Mexico. I have travelled and teh Netherlands is one of the savest countries in the world. Do people honestly think that is a coincidence?

  • Bella

    No just the natives. But than again they’re not people are they?

  • S302477

    No other parts in the world are much much better.

  • Maddy

    Dear Wabukeva,
    I am a foreigner living in the Neths. As an american you are no better than the Dutch, what so ever. I mean PALEAZZE has anyone that has a color been to Texas? Do I need to get into details?
    The Dutch are not rude, they are individualistic. Should you not worry about the guns in your country? Have you seen your prisons? Are Americans friendly, really? The waitresses are only friendly because they’re payments are terrible and they rely on tips. That kind of “friendlyness”is what we absolutely don’t like in the Netherlands. Just be yourself, it’s okay. Please, I have been in America and there are parts that remind you of a stereotypical 3th world country. The wealth that some people have, while others have no food on the table. Yet Americans worry about buying new boobs, having fake toothpaste smiles, botox, being fake, fake blonde, being on tv, living on credit cards, driving huge cars. Nobody understands how Americans (and their kids) can see celebs as their rolemodels and actually look up to them. Really; why??? where are the kids their mothers and fathers?
    No Dutch person gets out of bed for fake, plastered celebs. They do not care;one of the reasons why Dutch seem distant. The family (gezin) is very very important and mom and dad are doing what they are supposed to be doing. I know there is a lot to be done in your own country, so hurry up and get started.

  • Mckroket

    The topic is not about the USA it is about the Dutch and most of if not all the people on here giving their 2 cents worth are not Americans either. You should read the article and the posts first before you post.

  • Dedriekikkertjes

    I´ve been living in the Netherlands for 7years now and I must say that it is absolutely a nightmare to be a foreigner here. I´ve lived in other countries before, but this has been my worst experience. The country is pretty, but the people are very bad. Race doesn´t have much to do with their unfriendliness, they just hate foreigners, whether white, black or yellow. Even Polish people, who are in genearl blond and blue eyed are discrimitated in stores…They look at all foreigners as if they were stealling or lying…They are very skeptical of every more a foreigner makes. They only way to be successful here is if you are an expert in something very unique, but either than that you are screwed. Thy just employ themselves and they strongly believe in their superiority.

  • Dedriekikkertjes

    Every single thing you wrote here about Holland is true.
    People are fake, hypocrites, liers, rude, and they have absolutely no passion for anything… They are also very lazy

  • Dedriekikkertjes

    I respect your oppinion, but there is nothing like the Netherlands. In other countries most people are friendly, but here is the other way around.

  • Lia

    I used to think like you Anne, but every time I decide to let a Dutch person into my life (as a friend), but I end up disappointed. I don´t know what it is about the Dutch, they have a necessity to prove that they are better than everybody, so they befriend you to learn all about you and then they turn around use what they know about you to put you down and humiliate you. I had a Dutch person in my house once who saw some picture frames on my coffee table and one of the comments was about my father: the person said that my dad looked like a Mexican criminal (my dad looks very Portuguese) and I almost fainted, since I knew this person´s father and I had so much respect for his dad! Gosh, I could write an entire book about my bad experience with Dutch people. I´ve been discriminated, humiliated, pushed around, lied to and the list goes on….

  • Donald

    This is bullshit. Just because you had bad experiences with Dutch people. And that they make bad friends, makes you rude to generalize them all. Just saying. I have very good Dutch friends who I can trust on any front. It’s the person, not the country.

  • TYOies

    Japan on daily basis :-) Smartphones and books, sometimes can see PSP or Nintendo in adult hands :)

    Greetings from the best service in the world incl. the cheapest Internet and unlimited plan of net usage on smartphones.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_NHXBOIUJS3GGL726X2REHTZAGI Investigator Jee

    I have lived in the Netherlands up to my 23rd birthday in 1993. After that I moved to the UK and have now lived here for nearly 19 years. I remember the Dutch being actually an intelligent people with high standard of education, superior social welfare and an acceptable attitude towards minorities. My nationality is British and my ethnic origin is that of Pakistani. When I moved to the UK, I actually found Britons a much more difficult, selfish and back biting people. In Holland there is no poverty like there is in the UK because the latter are selfish. However, things may have changed since I left the Netherlands 19 year ago. Any people who have someone like Geert Wilders in their government cannot be a good people.

  • Golhol

    The Netherlands can’ be all that bad for expats. It does give the likes of Jill Cousins (type her name into youtube in the likely event you have never heard of her) the chance to be obscenely overpaid for doing nothing.

  • Golhol

    sorry…missed the “t” of can’t!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_NHXBOIUJS3GGL726X2REHTZAGI Investigator Jee

    British people are not any more moral than Dutch people. They are both north europeans whose language belong to the same sub-family. Whilst the Netherlands is a welfare state with low unemployment, the UK is a police state whose leader wants to wage a war on her poorest.

  • JeeWhizz

    The UK a police state? You really think so? By the way, unemployment is not low in The Netherlands, they discount so many people from the count that the rate looks far lower than it really is. At least the UK now counts all economically inactive individuals.

  • Holgol

    We are genuinely jealous of the London riots. Look at our pathetic efforts in 2005: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpLIZM9SjTc

  • Googog

    Funny how the wonderful Netherlands has banned the wearing of a head dress, but the police state UK hasn’t.

  • Guest

    Stop making things up. The Netherlands hasn’t banned the wearing of a head dress. The only countries with a burqa ban at the moment are Belgium and France.

  • Guest

    Exactly. A pathetic effort. Any Saturday night in any British city is more violent than that.

  • Googog

    So sorry, I read this article on the Dutch Daily News:

    http://www.dutchdailynews.com/dutch-government-approves-ban-on-clothing-that-covers-the-face/

    Perhaps the Dutch Daily News should stop making things up too.

  • Guest

    As long as both chambers of parliament haven’t approved of that, it is still a law in the making. And it is very uncertain whether parliament will decide in favor of it.

  • Guest

    Sorry. I am an idiot.

  • Googog

    Well, you can’t rely on the Dutch Daily
    News can you? How dare you accuse me of making things up. What are we supposed to believe?

  • Guest

    The news item you are referring to is from January 2012. At the time it was written, it was true. But, as you may or may not know, the government has fallen since then. So we have a completely different situation.
    Maybe it is a good idea for you to check what you read on the internet, instead of mindless believing everything you read.

  • Guest

    Most reputable websites repeat the story. Surely it all depends on the composition of the next government, so you are being a little disingenuous in claiming that it is not going to happen. Don’t forget, you are the ones who had a fascist in government.

  • Holgol

    You can’t imply that somebody is being mindless because they have read a news story. There has been no official news to say that the ban is not taking place, So what is to be believed? At least it is clear that googog was not making things up. The Dutch Daily News is the only source for news for many expats, so are you saying it is all nonsense?

  • Guest

    And you have been to every British city?

  • Guest

    The only source for news? Why,is your internet not working?

  • Julius

    I am a Dutch national. Currently expat in the UAE. Being well traveled and very much interested in different cultures, I was very surprised starting to find out that so many people have a hard time living in Holland.

    In the past, A lot of the immigrants have moved to Holland, mostly kept minding their own business. Perhaps this created sort of a notion that: you can do whatever you want to do, and if you don’t want to do as us, we are fine with it, but don’t expect anything from us if you don’t adjust. The so called tolerance, but perhaps indifference is a better word.

    I have experienced two types of foreigners in Holland. The ones that were part of the group immediately and those who were left out and only friended other foreigners. I have had people telling me the Dutch were the most friendly people in the world, and that they felt like they were in a fairy tale. And we have this.

    An example of a guy that did not succeed is a greek guy who i trained with. He wanted to hang out with Dutch people, but when I asked him if he wanted to something next saturday, he looked disgusted and refused because social interaction for him should be more spontaneous. But the Dutch plan their weekends well in advance. It is like if I would go to Jamaica and act surprised that people don’t show up when I plan a meeting next saturday at 8:30.

    A big downside for foreigners is that Dutch prefer very solid and loyal groups of friends. People they have known for all their lives and on which they feel they can rely on. Mixing in a group like that will be very difficult. Dutch people will give you a hard time before they call you their friend, but they will be a good one.

    Social meetings are done by appointments. Don’t make appointments you don’t keep. People simply wont make them anymore.

    Customer service: could be much better. But Dutch people don’t like bullshit. So someone wishing you a wonderful day when he only wants to sell you stuff, is generally not appreciated. Nor does someone running to help you. When I want someones opinion or help, I will ask it. I am not a child. People in the store know that what in some cultures is considered service, I find offensive.

    I have found an article of an Irish guy running into the same problems, also solving them within 3 months. Hopefully I can find them and post it on this site. It contains very some good tips.

    I have also seen a lot of complaints about simple cultural differences, like how people ride and park their bikes. It is like if I complained that I hear the mosque 5 times a day in this Muslim country. I think that if you make complaints like that you really should not be living in another country and pollute the internet with your “insights” in a culture. Indeed, there are expat complaint discussions like this for almost all countries, so i guess the difference in between the expectations and the real world is bad. A lot also probably comes from people who were moving somewhere because of job (or worse… a partners job) and find it very difficult to adjust. Make the most of it, or move on.

    But… There is clearly more to it than just cultural difference. Clearly we Dutch have not a good understanding of how the world sees us, or is beginning to see us. Our minding our own business and indifference culture is on a very wrong road. Our vision less society where no one is responsible and people hope things will stay as the were 10-20 years ago, should make some drastic changes. Also, we should be more receptive to people who want to make the most of their lives in Holland. The alleged resilience against foreigners is damaging and down right stupid.

    I to have left the country and share a lot of the visions and complaints about the Dutch and their social circles. And the stable, but boring lives.

    Information like on this site should become more widely read. I will be promoting it, hopefully assisting in making The Netherlands a better place for our visitors.

  • Pcblues

    My girlfriend was born and raised here as well and she feels exactly the same. We wish we could leave but it is proving financially impossible at the moment.

  • Ali

    The Netherlands rules for expats always change for example 30% tax rule and holding new & renew work permit application for Iranian high skill migrant and they can’t plan for their future live here. Therefore we expected the Netherlands rated become most unfriendly country for Expats

  • Ffarrell

    The tightest and meanest people in Europe along with the Scots.

  • Monique

    Well, I have not lived in holland but my experience as a tourist has been nothing but good. I have found the Dutch people to be warm and friendly and more than happy to start a conversation and speak English if you can’t speak Dutch. I think that the French are the most unfriendly country! They are arrogant arse holes!

  • DK

    I enjoyed visiting Holland but now I am living here since three years with a dutch citizen (me being American) and I find it the most boring place to be. The food is absolutely gross on a daily basis, nothing to live with for too long. The people are nice to you as a tourist when you live here they are incredibly superficial and I can never trust their word on anything. They come across as being incredibly stupid and quite rude. God I want to go back home today!

  • Guy Tritton

    Personally as an Englishman, I have always found the Dutch the most similar to the English. We English are often thought as being somewhat closed (ask any foreigner in London – they never meet the English). But if you get through that hard outer shell, you have made it and then we will look after you through thick and thin.

  • Tijmen

    Dutch are known as people that are fair and honest, you have clearly had a bad experience with some Dutch people. First time I heard that the Dutch are lazy, expecially in comparison with southern countries, they might have a bit of a 9 to 5 work mentality, but they do work hard. Dutch are fake??? For most Dutch people you get what you see. I understand if you find it difficult to become friends with Dutch people, they usually have friends enough and are not really waiting for friends that do not speak Dutch.

  • Tijmen

    You will find xenophobia everywhere and the incident you described happens in every country. I do have to admit that London is a lot easier to integrate, but that is due to a large amount of foreigners that live and work there. It is also difficult to get English friends, and even in London you would rely on other expats for your social life.

  • Sheep221

    I just read the all of the 300 comments about this article as I was considering to move to the netherlands. Although I’ve been there for a 2 week vacation and everything was fine, I knew before, the dutchies are closed and ignorant at a times. But what I read here is in fact utterly bad(I found more sites like this saying the same). Although my state is far worse in everything than netherlands. I’m considering going somewhere else now thanks for sorting things up for me.

  • olm
  • TT

    Kind of like all the foreigners that come to America right??!!! I also live in the Netherlands and must rely on my expat community because the Dutch neighbors are so shut off and unfriendly. The market is another story…most are willing to help, after they are done mocking you for attempting to speak their language!!!

  • Hans

    Wow! DANK JE WEL! you. Can definitely explain well what we are about because its just a differ country wedo things different than America and the “Americans” are basically in culture shock and find everything we think is normal rude so the next time you go to Nederlands make sure tio look up some Dutch etiquette and study it a bit and you will be so much more understanding of what is happening around you

  • hennes & mauritz

    I completely agree with the comments below. The vast majority of Dutch people have smug, parochial attitudes that are condescending, rude, and unprofessional.

    The job market, just like the bureaucracy, is always wishy-washy, with few firm transparency mechanisms to ensure fair hiring practices. The result is a highly discriminatory, segregated job market (except in some aspects of the public sector) and the proliferation of ‘small town’-style nepotism.
    Some commentators have made a distinction between being a student and an expat… well, I’ve been both, and I can say that I notice little difference. The universities are just as smug, racist, and parochial as the general pop. These universities (Leiden University, for example) used to be world class institutions, despite their self-serving, pre-WW2 imperialist agendas. They are now bitter shells of universities – going through the motions of research, but producing very little of substance. The world has changed and the universities have not kept pace. They continue to balk at change, live in the past, initiate few innovative programs, and employ obsolete attitudes toward international scholarship. 91% (fact) of tenured professors are white, straight, men, (yes, this is statistically tracked), making it among the least scholarly diverse countries in Europe. The Netherlands also has among the fewest women on scientific and research boards, rendering it among the bottom (with Germany) yet again. Professors here have a strong tendency to foster growth exclusively in students who appear in their image (white, Dutch, straight, men), and I can attest that all of the students who graduated during my year with cum laude were white, Dutch/German, straight males, despite a very international cohort.
    If you’re thinking about studying or working in NL, my advice is to avoid it. You’re better off doing an online degree from a world class, respectable institution, than coming to NL to study. Once you’re on the job market, you’re best off using your international degree at home or working for an international company where diversity and rigor are appreciated.

  • http://www.facebook.com/christopher.v.miller Christopher V Miller

    lol the fukkin scots!are awesome!!

  • leike

    and i hope it stays that way, so all the expats go to Canada …

  • Holgol

    Apart from the people who work for Unique Multilingual, Randstad and Timing, I think the Dutch are wonderful people.

  • Holgol

    And how much Dutch news appears on international news websites? How interested is the rest of the world in Holland? Not very…In any case, my internet would have to be working to see this site, would it not? You really are a blithering idiot.

  • Dirk

    See what you mean, she is the sort of expat The Netherlands just doesn’t want or need.

  • Jakc

    Dutch treat!

  • http://twitter.com/rpopescu Radu-Adrian Popescu

    Let me get this straight – someone made a silly faux pas and you’re now disappointed and no longer friends for that? My, I have to say I’m glad for the poor Dutch devils, they’re better off without such friendship…

  • http://twitter.com/rpopescu Radu-Adrian Popescu

    Yes he can. And I fully agree with him. By the way, I’ve got friends from South-American countries and I’m Romanian myself, so I would know one or two things about what being latin means.

  • http://twitter.com/rpopescu Radu-Adrian Popescu

    My dear, I’m from Romania and I befriended a Dutch national, born in Turkey, parents moved to Rotterdam when he was 3.
    I’ve asked him about being muslim, about the religion of his parents, about his drinking (although nothing about the alphabet obviously), about his parents’ life in Turkey before moving here, and about a million other things, and – shock and horror – we spent hours on end talking about such things, and nobody was upset!
    I’ve also had many similar conversations with other Turkish or Dutch/Turkish people, some of whom were muslim, some who were not. Also with Pakistani, Egyptian and Lebanese. You know what? None of the was such a winy little b*tch like you.

    It’s called conversation – you should try it some time, when you’re not busy feeling superior because you’re so much more “open”, “warm”, “educated”, benefiting from much more balanced newspapers I’m sure, etc. than the people of the country you’ve chosen to move to.
    Also – what the hell’s wrong with calling cows that were born and bread in the Netherlands Dutch cows? Don’t the French have the best wine? Don’t the British have the best beef? Don’t the Turkish make the best sarma? Don’t the Germans have the best… um… potatoes? Or Romanians the best food ever? ;^)
    Get over yourself buddy, stop seeing conspiracies everywhere and malice when there’s in fact nothing but a bit of sillyness.

  • Alex

    Thank you for proving the point of the article:

    You proclaim yourself honest and fair, hard working not like these lazy southern europeans and you’re so cool with so many friends that you don’t need to burden yourself with another one, especially some inferior being who doesn’t speak Dutch.

  • Alex

    Very well positioned in the international market (industrial powerhouse Germany right next door), virtually no military expenses, international community donating extremely high paying jobs here (UN, ESA, Intl Courts), tax-evasion system that allows e.g. large Spanish and other Intl companies to have a paper-only presence in NL to save on taxes.

    To name a few….

  • tommy

    Brits are polite as hell!!! They are lovely!

  • Tommy

    Scottish are awful!

  • Ommy

    The fact that the uk has more visitors than the Netherlands proves your wrong you fucking cunt. The uk is awesome!!!

  • Dutchduck

    England? A war zone,oh shut up you stupid tart. Those stats also claim that more people are raped in Canada than in Africa,do you believe that moron???

  • Samant

    Holgol,has anyone told you that your a twat? You are anti British,deny Hollands colonial past,I know lots of Dutch people who prefer the uk!

  • ommy is a dummy

    Then why are Brits fleeing that dump island like rats?

  • John

    I Just left Amsterdam after living there for 12 years, 12 years ago it was a free great country to live, one of the best I ever lived. but slowly it has turned into easily the worst country you could live in as an expat.

  • fredje

    i love the dutch people!!!!
    They are the most fake people i have ever encountered and think about savings and money all the time, even when they sleep…Their openess and directness is just a gimmick because they always seek for financial oppurtunities…
    They are also great to work with because they are neurotic control freaks…

  • Jim’ll Fix It

    Now Then Now Then, I went to the Netherlands 5 years ago uhuhuhuhu. And I found therm not nice people. And during my 5 years The Dutch have never fixed it for me. Uhuhuhuhuh

  • tim blanks

    Actually according to the latest HSBC survey, the Netherlands is not the worst country to be an expat. Depending on the criteria, even the United States and the United Kingdom do worse. And when you consider raising children it is one of the best countries. http://www.expatexplorer.hsbc.com

  • john_smith

    yea – it’s called conversation when somebody asks you these questions at a certain point of a discussion. but if these are the first 5 things you must ALWAYS answer when you meet a new dutch person you sort of start to take it personally although they don’t really mean to offend you = they are just trying to verify whether their information about every place that lies east to the eastern border of germany [where the civilised world ends] is true… I think they are mere victims of their state propaganda which tells them: other places suck, because they don’t probably even have biertjes and broodjes there. Without thus inflated national pride the government would risk their own people (taxpayers) would voulenteerly give up living in such hostile conditions (wheather, prices, no nature, prices, people, constant threat of armaggeddon, redneck cuisine, prices…) and partake in massive exodus. So they need to constantly remind the population how ‘cool’ it is to live here. And if you are exposed to such brainwashing your entire life – of course – when you meet people from less developed economies (i.e. countries that didn’t partake in invading and enslaving other civilisations in the past), you don’t want to be friends with those untermensch 😀

    …so this is sort of super exaggeratet way of putting how I feel on my average ‘bad Amsterdam day’ … Much more often however, I like it here a lot more than back home in CEE and although it is somewhat difficult to express it – life here IS better accross a variety of indicators. Everything they suck at – we suck more. And then there are things at which they are good and we still suck at those 😀 I underwent a personality transformation and now I know – If I want to enjoy it here – I must try to integrate. It’s like the old saying – if you cannot beat them – join them. I already learned my first dutch skill: say yes and smile while I in fact you mean NO ( e.g. yes Hans – I will come to your party )

    Also – check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCmc42kZrBc&feature=related

    Haha, just messing with you guys! I really love it here – especially after I return after a while from any other place, the feeling of cold air while ridding the bike – feels good. I was far far away for almost a year and when I came back – so many locals expressed really sincere appreciation of seeing me again which I totally didn’t expect and it melted my heart. All people are essentially good – only we all often compensate our petty little insecurities in quite inappropriate ways… but fuck it – that’s life.

  • john_smith

    i did a lot of typos in that post (sorry – had some biertjes and didnt bother to do the spell check…)

  • john_smith

    Also – on the hospitality issue: If you are for some strange reason really attracted to bad taste places such as pubs at Red Light District in Amsterdam – it takes about 20 seconds to examinate a place with your eyes before you decide to walk in. IF you see a lady behind the bar who is obviously a female member of the local Hell’s Angels AND you still decide to walk in and order one of your retarded Free Trade Soy Milk Chai Latés in a place where 95 % of people drink beer – don’t be surprised if she’s not going to smile AND more importantly – don’t let that moment become the primary experience to influence your way of seeing the Netherlands 😀 …If you are into that “we are a group of very special people with superior taste and opinions” – you will find a lot of (vegan) places in Amsterdam that will suit you. However, if you have really twisted sence of humor and you enjoy observing life from different angles, and you don’t get intimidated by somebody’s rough looks – maybe you will enjoy the sarcasm of that old witch at the first pub. Before you know, you will realise she makes fun of everybody, regardless of what they order and you might as well find yourself becoming a regular at a place like that – just for the ‘crack’.

    If you try to see through the superficial glitter in life, you will soon realise that the british are not really any better just because they manage to squeeze “excuse me & thank you” to every sentence. It’s rather easy to get used to people talking like that and fall for it, however – as an expat in UK you will have to deal with the same shit treatment (sometimes possibly worse). Often you will be laughed at for not being able to speek in some retarded shepherd accent – but so what? If your intention to integrate is really sincere, you won’t be put off by that. When you are new to any group (school, work, village, town, city…) people who’ve been around for a while WILL always make fun of you in the begining. And if you find it unacceptable – why would you still decide to stick around for 15 years only to then say: I do not have a single friend here?! How many friends do you really have back home? Just because somebody doesn’t really feel like jumping into a pit of lava for you doesn’t mean they secretly hate you 😉

  • Olivia

    It is unfair to generalize what Dutch people are according to an article about the expats… In every country are those who are friendly and those who are rude and racists… I had both good and bad experiences with Dutch people, but it doesn’t mean that everybody is the same.. Maybe the reason why expats are so expensive, is even more complex than social…

  • N.

    I find rather obvious that the results of the above survey are mainly due to the fact that 6 out of the 10 countries of the list have English as their official language. If we add to this that spanish is a language spoken by 15-16 countries of the world and french and german are popular second language for many people worldwide, it comes logical that the enlisted countries make integration a little easier than countries like The Netherlands. I live already 3 years in the Netherlands and my so far conclusion is that those who find it extremely hard to adjust themselves are mainly narrow minded people who keep bitching about anything. There are people living here for years and they still don’t speak basic dutch. They can’t even order a coffee in dutch. Yes, maybe dutch society is not the easiest place to integrate your self into, but I prefer to believe that in most cases the truth lies somewhere in the middle.To sum up, my opinion is that the above survey is not really representative of how “friendly” each country is to the foreigners.

  • pgjpeter

    I must admit that I’m shocked, not that much by the article itself but by all reactions underneath. I did take the time to read them all, because it was interesting in some way to read such different opinions, especially the really passionate ones (in the negative sense). I’m a Dutch national that has been living for some periods in other countries in the world. I do understand why some parts of culture are taken up in a bad way by expats. I suppose you do have to get used (however hard) to some parts of dealing which eachother between Dutch people and Dutch people and expats alike. It’s a way, and if you get to understand it a bit, I don’t think it’s as bad as it seemed on first hand. About that rudeness, I can only make a simple comparison and make you decide what you prefer. Outside of the Netherlands I have experienced many times that people are extremely friendly between eachother, treating them as real (old) friends. But when one party turns their back, the attitude changes; the other party talks badly behind their backs, make rude jokes about them, and so on. In the Netherlands you will normally experience easily when someone does not like you. That creates the clear situation in which you know it’s not worth the effort. For that reason one argument I couldn’t agree upon was that Dutch are ‘fake’. Because fake, for me, is the opposite in this case of ‘rude’. I don’t know what I prefer, rude or fake.

    I would like to state another difference. The Netherlands is not only Amsterdam, Rotterdam and the Hague. I can tell you that in the countryside, for example the nothern provinces, all Dutch people think exactly the same about Holland as many negative reactions here. Holland, for those who didn’t know, is not another name for the Netherlands, but is a region that comprises Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Den Haag and more, all in the west of the country. I can with certainty tell you that the general mentality is completely different in that part of the country.

    By biggest issue with the reactions is the generalization that is on display here, but that might be a consequence of the nature of the article. Ofcourse you can speak in general trends, but mainly your experience is based on personal encounters, which city you were, people you worked with. Reactions that state “all Dutch are terrible persons and the country, that pretends to be anywhere European, should sink below the sea-level” can’t simply be taken seriously. I do with good reason suppose persons stating this are nowhere anywhere better than the people they accuse.

    I know the Netherlands as a warm and open society, but definitely, like every country, with its peculiarities. The more you get to understand those, and learning the language might be a prerequisite, the more you will be at ease and comfortable. The Netherlands is very different in some ways but I wouldn’t say for the better of the worse, just different. It depends also a bit on your capacity of blending in and not having the expectation that everything will be easy. Everyone is very welcome in the country, even though recently we have seen problems with racism and an extreme party. This was caused by bad policies and problems, but I can tell you the majority of the country is not racist, extreme, xenophobic or whatever. Ofcourse, 10% of the votes still for this party is shocking, but it’s a phenomenon clearly present in many European countries and it’s actually improving here.

    My impression and feeling is that we are open. Answering you in English is meant as a positive attitude. We know that Dutch is hard and not that important as a language for foreigners. In general we are not a nationalistic country, only when it comes to soccer and queens’day. I know many foreigners who came here and never wanted to leave again. But there’s a lot of douchebags in every country. I’m afraid that those with extremely negative reactions were unlucky, and/or not free of a piece of guild themselves.

    That’s all I can say about it, I do hope you will one day also experience all the good sides of Dutch people and culture. I think it’s a big miss if you didn’t.

  • Maria

    I need to say that though I am from Greece, very friendly, open minded and happy person who loves sun, I managed to survive in The Netherlands and I actually met some amazing straightforward strict Dutch people that appreciated me and really tried to make me feel like home. If you live somewhere abroad, I believe that you should try to understand the mentality of the locals and ‘forgive’ them of being deferent of what you have used to. If you do that you will find some amazing friends!

  • Elise Mooijman

    Such a rude comments I find here. If your able to say cruel things like: I hope they sink below sea level or ‘I hate Dutch people’ then do you really think your all that amazing your self? I think the people that said stuff like this should take a good look in the mirror before saying bad stuff about Dutch. I gave my opinion about a few of the comments here on my blog.
    http://www.mooij.blogspot.com

  • Peter van der Hoog

    Why not give a link to the survey itself?

    http://www.expatexplorer.hsbc.com/

  • leksite4songs

    NIGERIA IS THE BEST FRIENDLY IN THE WORLD……

  • lisa

    Here is the reason…. (Background: Lived here 16 years, married to Dutch, speak dutch, kids in local schools). Problem (one not yet mentioned) – the Dutch will be FRIENDLY but will not become FRIENDS. Note distinction. Answer: they have too many connections and do not have need or time to make more real friendships. This is a small country which means you have your “basis” school friends, your “jaar-club” friends, your adult friends and then you have your family where you have to be on the sofa drinking coffee regularly. No space or need for “more difficult” expat friends. true story; American and dutch woman best friends when both expats in Shanghai. Happen to return to NL at the same time, American has met a Dutchman from the same town the Dutch woman comes from. Dutch woman says to American best friend. “Back in The Netherlands, we will not be best friends. I will not have time/interest for this close friendship.” Now, beat that??!!

  • AlessK

    I am a half Dutch half American who grew up most of my life in The Netherlands (though I have lived in 4 other countries as well). I am blessed to be able to appreciate and take away with me the best of both cultures. I would not trade my childhood in the Netherlands of early independence, bike riding, and relatively liberal culture for anything.

    Having said that, I can vouch for the fact that friendliness is definitely not a forte for the Dutch. My American mother (who has lived in The Netherlands for over 15 years now, is married to a former Dutch parliamentarian, speaks the language fluently, and has even adopted many Dutch mannerisms) has struggled for years with feeling like an outsider, no many how many long she remains an active figure in local Dutch life.
    While it breaks my heart to see my mother fight so hard to assimilate and get no where, her plight is really relatively mild in the larger spectrum of this phenomena. There is definitely a problem with racism and xenophobia, especially against Turks and Moroccans and other Northern Africans (this ironically grew out of the previously longstanding Dutch attitude of letting immigrants in the 60s maintain their culture without assimilating).
    The problem goes beyond just being “private” or not understanding cultural differences. Even I, who speak the language fluently, attended public Dutch schools, played field hockey on Dutch teams and have lived here most of my life am often prejudiced against. For example, I was asked to represent The Netherlands by carrying the flag in an international parade and was the center of much controversy since i was not “pure Dutch enough” to do so – even though I had lived here longer than many of the plaintiffs!

    The Netherlands is a wonderful country. I appreciate it more and more the longer I spend time away at college in the USA. However, the inherent and deep rooted xenophobia of the country is indeed a severe problem that I fear will only worsen as people like Geert Wilders exploit the protectionist, in-group mentality that often accompanies economic unsteadiness. I could rave for hours about the aspects of Dutch culture that I love, but I hope that in being frank about these issues might lead to discussion and awareness, and, eventually, change.

  • http://twitter.com/johaster Prof. dr. J. Sterk

    Wow! Half of my colleagues at university are expats, Australian, German, Mexican, US, Italian. I hope they don’t think about me like that…

  • http://twitter.com/johaster Prof. dr. J. Sterk

    How is your German now Laurie?

  • http://twitter.com/johaster Prof. dr. J. Sterk

    With an attitude like that you never should have crossed the border of your country of birth!

  • http://twitter.com/johaster Prof. dr. J. Sterk

    If you want to learn about Dutch history, read Jonathan Israel’s “Radical Enlightenment”

  • http://twitter.com/johaster Prof. dr. J. Sterk

    Fill in a tax form, If you have a low income you get part of it back.

  • http://twitter.com/johaster Prof. dr. J. Sterk

    Dutch enlightenment has thought them to disagree without becoming violent or taking things too personal. Actually even during revolutionary periods very few people were killed. You will indeed become a reject here if you think violence underscores your civilized manners.

  • http://twitter.com/johaster Prof. dr. J. Sterk

    Boy, if all the people who don’t like it here would leave, we would have as much space to live as people have in Germany or France. Please go! :)

  • mcp02

    Professor, with this comment you are making people angrier instead of helping on understanding the dutch. It doesn’t help, on the contrary, makes a point to the bad opinions expressed here. I think you as a professional, should give an example.

  • http://twitter.com/johaster Prof. dr. J. Sterk

    Actually, as a university professor, I tend to think the same way about Dutch students. Recently, I taught an advanced machine-intelligence course to a group of research-master students, half of which were foreign. I was really delighted and impressed by these foreign students: so polite and humble, never criticizing my didactic skills, or negotiating about what they have to do, never questioning my authority. I could even have them bring coffee or clean the blackboard!

    A professor’s paradise! :)

    A small negative was, though, that on the test, the highest grade invariably went to one of these Dutch assholes.

  • http://twitter.com/johaster Prof. dr. J. Sterk

    Since the 17nth century a sizable portion of the Amsterdam population, often the majority, has not been born there. What makes you think anybody belongs there. Just be yourself, and you’ll do OK.

  • http://twitter.com/johaster Prof. dr. J. Sterk

    Did anybody ask their children how they like it here?

  • mckroket65

    I find it hilarious how some Dutch people ( not all ) get on here and show their righteous indignation that the rest of the world does not bow down to them. I guess the famous Dutch “honesty” and “straight forwardness” that they are so proud of does not apply to those nasty foreigners. Only white Dutch are allowed to be a$$holes. Everyone else better watch your step. It is heartening to see that quite a few Dutch who are getting on this thread are objective enough to see that their little country has a serious if not secretive problem. Sorry to say my Dutch people but the world community has considered you and found you wanting. On the bright side Jesus loves you but everyone else hates your guts. Ik wens jou ‘n prettig dag :)

  • Immigrants in the Netherlands

    with my respect and love to the Dutch people,But Netherlands and Dutch people one of the most racist countries and distinguish between humans and deal,the most rumblings people the most complain people of nothing,the most closed people on itself,exaggerated fear and worries of foreign,Live in the Netherlands is not as is the case in Belgium or France,Italy or Spain,expect you livie seven years in somewhere in Netherlands no one of your neighbors want to get to know you or even say hi to you.Intervention to the bars or to any public place you find yourself alone no one would like to get close to you or talking to you,even if you invite them they will look to you as strange look and then turn away from you,unfriendly country the right description to the Netherlands and fair..but for sure they are very kind people and helpful.

  • cisxo

    ‘there are friendly people here’ = this mean the expats.

  • cisxo

    were they dutch of latin expats..hahahaha

  • cisxco

    some dutch are not so bad.. but as a group they are fully awfull… this without saying that the few nice ones always have a DARK side like being dishonest to defend themselves or trying to show you they all know better.. some people from limburg can be sweet but they are just money driven..
    i am sorry but there is alsways something,,, is never nice and normal when socializing with dutchs

  • cisxo

    what about when you go to a restaurant, you order you wait 40 mins and you ask what happen with your order – is getting late ! and the guy look at you and means: WTF no body asked you to enter to this restaurant!

  • cisxo

    YES! you makea dutch friend then he invites you for lunch: you bring a nice bottle of wine and the dutch will serve you with 2 slices of bread and a slice of cheese and with a smile will ask you: cofee or tea?

  • cisxo

    you are so racist – bugger!
    dutch have open fancy pizza places specially in amsterdam the last 4 years!
    no marrocans crapy you
    we HATE you!
    hahahaah

  • cisxo

    they are rude everywhere don’t worry..

  • cisxco

    student life is easy everywhere even under the cold and bad food of the netherlands… but out of school in real life the situation is rather very different..

  • cisxco

    this sounds so dutch already man… every one is complaining becuase people on here think the way you reacted now!

  • cisxco

    now we know why you fit so well in ‘holland’

  • cisxco

    ahahahahahah

    hahahahaahahahahahahahahaahah

    hahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaha

    you’r funny

  • cisxo

    interested in other countries specially if the airplane ticket is cheap… hahahah

  • cisxo

    sounds like ALL the expats are very unlucky when arriving in holland… just so DUTCH for God sake: is never their fault

  • cisxo

    we hope the germans come back here and kick all the dutch asses starting with teaching them how to speak correct German and not the complete horrible language they use..

  • jimmy savile

    That must be hard for you. After all only Brits are allowed to criticize other countries.

    Hint: read the comments by your fellow countrymen on sites like DailyMail. Especially articles about immigration.

  • chavtown

    Yes we could all see that last year during the riots. Luvly people.

  • koolaa

    Add incompetent to unsympathetic! The only competent people I have encountered here are the engineers!

  • koolaa

    I don’t mind the Dutch being loud, rude and mean. Manners are relative and country-specific. But what I do mind is their pretending to be nice as long a they need you, or as long as their curiosity commands getting close to ‘extract information, which will then turn into gossip or even worse, weapons of destruction. I hate their dishonesty, which I have encountered at almost every level–even with some of the most direct ones. The ones that are “too nice” are those that avoid confrontation, but be sure, they will stick it to you sooner or later. This is nothing personal, just a fact of being a small-country; with a lot of boeren culture still dominant, and a national identity that has been resisting ‘annihilation’ in the domineering influence of Germany, France, UK and Spain. But, what makes them insufferable is also what makes them welcoming to us as expats–they ‘exploit’ us and fairly let us pay less taxes. Would you be much kinder to the ‘worker’ you hire to do the work you are incapable of and make them a member of your family? … this is my interpretation of their ways: “PRETEND to niceness until you get what you want, and then act like an asshole” :)

  • John

    Yes we could all see that last year during the riots [2]

  • John

    Yes we could all see that last year during the riots [2]

  • Emperor Palpatine

    Me and my apprentice Darth Vader are not please with Dutch people, who are cramping our style. You are not truly masters of the darkside of the force.

  • Guest

    Wow, as a Dutch person myself I am quite shocked by all these responses. I cannot disagree with the closed society and apparent rudeness in our country, even though I think this is due to the fact that Dutch people are very direct (to the extreme) in voicing their opinions. I have met countless foreigners who indeed experience this as rude. I can only say that for the vast majority, they do not intend for this to sound rude as they even treat their friends in the same way! Believe it or not… Also, some of the bad experiences seem to be all about expectations. Any small amount of research could have told you that the Dutch cuisine is not very impressive, and that lunch pretty much in all cases will exist of bread with some sort of topping, with a glass of milk. And yes, this also applies to office lunches. Expecting a cooked lunch from Dutch people is like waiting for pigs to fly. In short, Dutch people can appear rude and hostile but most of them mean well. The rudeness in public transport and queuing is a whole different matter, this is a constant annoyance to me as well. For all the rest, I can only suggest to prepare yourself before you set out to live here to avoid such grievances like cuisine and the weather, as you can hardly blame the Dutch people for this. Also, persevere in talking Dutch even when Dutch people will stubbornly reply in English every time you try. As other people have already pointed out, the experiences most probably differ per region in the Netherlands. Apart from all this I can only wish anyone going to the Netherlands to have a lovely time, and bring some orange clothing if you expect to spend a queensday or football tournament here. I cannot explain this, just google it and you will know what I mean.

  • Dingledoo

    Some expats should just be grateful that they have highly paid jobs over here. I know some engineers who were sacked for negligence in the UK who now work over here on high salaries and accountants who have been prosecuted for fraud, again earning a vast amount over here, The only problem in Holland is the reliance upon job agencies to recruit staff. They are incapable of selecting the right candidates and never check up an individual’s background properly.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=698608265 CheekyPenguin SnowCruiser

    I have lived in 4 countries an travelled to almost 20 countries. All i can say is the Dutch need to improve their customer service. They are good at talking rudely and giving no help at the end of the conversation. When you want to cancel or terminate your subscription on whatever services you have applied for, you will need to call, email, fill out form, reconfirm it and still, they will send you and email asking you to show up at their office to cancel it. what a pain in the xxx.

    Some people are not that rude but annoyingly straight-forward, while some are both and are stubborn enough to not admit it. Being too opinionated is not always a positive trait.

    I usually try to get out of my country and live somewhere else but NL has made me miss my country like i never had.I studied there for one year btw.

  • ptr

    There’s some truth to this. I’m dutch (not proud nor ashamed). my school friends got married and we lost contact. i find it hard to make real friends now (i’m end of my 20s). and i know this is true for a lot of dutch people, contact is superficial.

    Dutch people typically make friends during the school and uni time period. Then get married or find a gf and at that point there’s no need anymore to get to know other people or get involved with any activities with others. Except with other couples they knew from before. But it all waters down as they age some more, eventually meeting only on birthdays.

    I do think the shitty weather does have an influence in general. In warmer climates the people are more social, because it invites people to have an outdoor lifestyle, which in turn creates communities. Doing things together creates friendship/communities and at large makes the place more liveable. The weather can be shit everywhere, but when the climate is shit it does have an impact on everything. Same goes for landscapes, which Netherlands also does not have going for it, unless you enjoy boring flat grass fields with cows on it.

    A place in crisis also creates communities, like the Sandy hurricane now in America. People will have to work together to build the place back up. It also gives some perspective. Netherlands has no hurricanes, no poverty, no war, no dangerous animals, no anything that requires people to think like a team. The financial ‘crisis’ just pisses everyone off because the only solution is paying more instead of working together on something.

    About immigrants being ripped off here. Heh. Trust me, Dutch people feel the same way.

    Sorry for the people who came here and found it shit. Idk i guess for me it’s a motivation to leave NL and see more of the world. I lived overseas before and enjoyed it a lot.

    But it’s impossible to judge millions of people like some here do though. And if something as trivial as people not walking to the back of a tram actually bothers you… then you sort of prove what i’m saying, Netherlands has no real problems so perspective is lost and you get a whining and irritated society.

  • Dave

    Let’s not get started on the Romanians. This is certainly the most unfriendly people in the world. Having lived in both Holland and Romania, I would say the Romanians are more open at first but much worse friends then the Dutch. I have never had a Romanian friend who has not asked for money and acted as if it is an obligation. Almost everyone has a ”story” and some dubious intent. When you go to stores, everyone is downright mean no matter how nice you are. Their trash all over the place and everything is dirty yet the Romanians all talk about the stupid foreigners, with their civilized towns and non-cheating ways. Dutch and Romanian should make good friends for each other!

  • Movedon

    The Dutch are great at gaming the system and skimming money. Did you know that Ikea is a nonprofit with its headquarters in NL. All the Ikea family of companies roll up to a nonprofit holding company which is located above the Leiden train station in a small office. You would never know its there, its a letterbox operation. To be more specific INGKA Holding B.V. is wholly owned by Stichting INGKA Foundation a nonprofit in Leiden.

  • Erik

    I agree with the argument that having Germany as a neighbor is a huge benefit, but the others are just pure exaggerations. Sure, IKEA and all the others companies (including the band U2) having their empty headquarters in the Netherlands makes a few billions, and the ESA/International Court jobs also make a few bucks, but in the end it’s only peanuts compared to the total economy.

    Besides I wouldn’t call it donating. The ESA-jobs were part of a political arrangement with the French, and they got something in return. Plus Germany, France and Belgium also got their fair share of institutions.

    Compared to a sweatshop employee the Dutch are probably lazy, but I don’t think there is a lot of difference in terms of work ethic and laziness between a Dutchman and a German or a Scandinavian.

  • Zwarte piet

    Interesting article and interesting comments. I’ve read a lot of the comments and I can’t help but laugh. It’s funny how passionate some people are with regards to the dutch and everything they perceived as rude. I’ve worked for an international company over the last couple of years and have experienced the frustration expats can feel when dealing with the dutch culture and I understand. I do however think that some people take it a bit too far. For example, I dont think there’s many non english speaking countries in the world where you can get away with not speaking the local language but just english. Dutch people might take it a bit too far sometimes and keep speaking english to you when you try to speak dutch…is that rude? they think they are being nice to you because they think its easier for you..also..they like to practise their own language skills.

    Pushing you when getting of the tram? cry me a river! You live in a big city anywhere in the world..or even just a city..and this happens. Moaning about the food? No one said Holland is famous for their dutch cuisine…

    You coudnt make Dutch friends in holland? Like not even 1 serious friend? I think your better of asking yourself why you failed in this instead of blaming it on to the people. Because it basically means you failed to adapt to a culture.

    I just came back from living in Belgium for 1,5 years and I felt strongly annoyed by lots of things, didnt mean i coudnt make a few Belgian friends that I really appreciate. Would I want to live in Belgium again? No….but I’m not so ignorant that I now think all belgians are backstabbers.

    Ooh and please..to comment that the whole of holland is racist must be a joke. To then try and back it up by talking about ‘zwarte piet’ (which you didnt even know how to spell, how ignorant?) is even more hilarious, and to then comment we added a anti muslim party to our goverment is even more of a joke. Study a bit better the next time you state ‘facts’ if you dont understand how our parlement works then please dont even try to join the conversation. The Pvv wasnt a part of the goverment but ‘gedoogd’ but i guess you dont understand :)

  • Doododo

    Surely Holland is famous for its Dutch cuisine? It wouldn’t be famous for Chinese, Italian, French or Indian would it? For your information, white people blacking themselves up is seen as a rather odd way to behave in most of the modern world. The Black and White minstrels went out of fashion in England in the 1970s. As for the being pushed when getting on the tram…well, pushing people is considered to be assault in most other countries, so there is no reason why the Dutch should have the right to do it. It is a shame that the Dutch couldn’t have demonstrated the same ruthless streak they show getting a seat on a bus when they were supposed to be protecting innocent people in Srebrenica.

  • Letsbekind

    As a born and raised dutchie I can highly recommend a small book by Hans Kaldenbach titled `Act Normal – 99 Tips for dealing with the Dutch`. It´ll probably make you understand why we do some of the peculiar things we do. If you don´t want to spend any money on a book ( a good start in becoming one of us 😉 ) , there´s also a site with a summary of all the items discussed in the book, just with less background information. Just google for the title without the ´act normal´ part to find the list. But beware some items aren´t really relevant anymore and there´s a big mistake in 29. Coffee means you´re very welcome! Most of the things I read below are just misunderstandings and can be avoided if you´re prepared. I can assure you the majority of us don´t have bad intentions. To keep everything running smoothly in a very densely populated country we just need a lot of social ´rules´, many of which are unwritten. If you´re willing to follow these you´ll have a great time here.

  • Christian

    I have no idea where you gathered that info. Sounds wrong to me. I have been in the Netherlands for 4 months and have achieved personalyy and professionally a lot more than in my home country…France (a nice place to visit; hell on earth for daily life!)

  • Jimmy Savile

    Then why are there still Golliwogg dolls for sale in stinking colonial Britain? And why did the Brits made such a mess of Palestina/Israel? Imagine all the lives that could have been saved hadn’t Britain been such an evil colonial power,

  • Holgol

    Haven’t seen a golliwog for years. Imagine how many lives could have also been saved if the Dutch weren’t also an evil colonial power. Imagine how many lives could have been saved in Srebrenica if the Dutch were any use.

  • Jimmy Savile

    You are right. We too were an evil colonial power, owning India before you and causing a major famine. Then there is our conduct in Indonesia to consider. I suppose grown men blacking themselves up could be seen as racist, now that you mention it. Also, I shouldn’t go on about Israel and Palestine as if it was caused by anybody in modern Britain. I also need to really sit down and ask myself why I go by the name of a prolific pedophile. Am I trying to suggest that there has never been anything like that happened in Holland, when only recently a man was jailed for 19 years in Amsterdam for abusing babies in his care? Time to rethink my life I think.

  • Queen Elisabitch

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/apr/23/british-empire-crimes-ignore-atrocities

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/apr/18/britain-destroyed-records-colonial-crimes?newsfeed=true

    The great thing of being British is that we simply deny our colonial past and destroy any evidence of our wrong doings. After all those people we killed weren’t white. Only Britiannia Ueber Alles is what counts.

  • Darren

    My goodness, this thread is a troll’s paradise! I am English but get on very well with my Dutch neighbours so none of this makes any sense to me.

  • Holgol

    Those links are just opinion columns. We are taught at school about the evils of our imperial past. Our own Prime Minister admitted our failings while in Kashmir a few months ago. Ex-British soldiers are on trial for atrocities in Kenya. Everyone knows about Churchill’s hideous behaviour in India. Everyone knows the UK fucked up in Palestine. Hardly anybody is interested in the Falklands. On the other hand, those Dutchmen who committed war crimes in Indonesia are immune from prosecution. Stop wasting your time searching for articles on this subject. Just read “Churchill’s Secret War” by Madhusree Mukerjee. This sold well in the UK. It really is a case of the kettle calling the pot black I’m afraid. We know the British Empire was a disgrace. The Dutch Empire cannot claim any moral high ground. Anyway, this is an old news article about how ex-pats don’t like living in Holland. What has British history got to do with it? Just get a life you sad pitiful excuse for humanity.

  • holgol

    What has Srebenica got to do with this? (mentioned by Doododo).

    And yes it is an old article. This is the latest expat survey
    http://www.expatexplorer.hsbc.com

    The rest of your ramblings are the usual British bragging the rest of the world is of used of you obese filthy chavs.

  • BR

    I’m a born and raised Brazilian living in the Netherlands for almost a
    year now, and I totally agree with the post. Being a Latin American
    makes me very used since a young age to this kind of so-expected
    “friendliness” that actually comes, and goes; from the waitress who shows so just because of her low wage and her expected tip.
    Realize that: the world if full of empty friendships and meaningless
    compliments coming from people who is just more interested in getting
    something from you (from a simple empty company to hang out, for those
    who are not mature enough to feel confortable on their own, to things
    like money or personal influence) than actually being sincere, and
    therefore respectful (in my point of view and in the point of view of
    many dutch people, at least), with you. All these ridiculous complainers
    (and they are ridiculous simply because of the fact that no one has
    ever asked for them to come to the Netherlands neither forces them to
    stay) should try to ponder a bit and put themselves in the places of
    their hosts: maybe the way I have to show you respect, is telling you
    the truth? Or maybe should I prefer a false smile and a compliment as a
    sign of friendship… maybe the waitress seems rude? Or maybe it’s me
    who has come to this country full of pre-concepts regarding to “the
    customer is always right” (and therefore that employees are garbage)?
    The fact, for example, that the Dutch people are commonly taught since
    an early age to voice their opinions even to someone on a senior
    position is just GREAT. It shows an immense care for mutual respect. The
    fact itself that the Dutch people are taught to simply – voice – their
    opinions is already of great value, since it shows a culture where
    debate is highly incentivated, rather than subservient politeness. My
    opinion: many people is not mature enough for the nobility achieved by
    the dutch culture.

  • Free at last

    People who gain indepence only to stop paying taxes, who legalized receiving stolen goods (asking pirates to hit British ships), who got rich trading slaves; a country that produces nothing rather than bad service but sells everything; a language that imported please from French (s.v.p.) and “sory” from English because the concepts were missing (semiotically, speaking is thinking!); a place were hygiene is an option and food is only cold; a land under sea level and with no natural barriers; a place where “no” is considered an answer but there is no limit for asking (or demanding?); the only place on eart were immigrants (not expats) can be more mean and racist than local assholes. Somewhere and something like that it’s and should be simply a reminder that life is beautiful and those cheap filthy rude barbarians (from Amsterdam to Zwolle) only deserve to drawn under the cold sea waters.

  • fredflange

    Because those British ships were all on a peacekeeping mission bringing civilization to places now known as the Commonwealth. Absolutely no colonialism and slave trade by the Brits. Alstublieft :-)

  • wherelse?!

    dutchies are so rude and touchy, they delete comments on this post coz they can’t handle the truth in their faces!

    Something just to strength the point here
    http://www.dutchdailynews.com/unfriendly-country-expats/

  • only yoouuuuuuu
  • Free at last

    so you are not in denial dude… you are not entirely dutchie.. aren’t you?! At least grandma was Indonisian..! Like Jerk’s Wildeers one.
    ps: by the way why always grandma and never grandpa..?
    ah yeah because of the raping habit.. ya hooor

  • fredflange

    Have you read the comments? If the Dutch really were that touchy and deleted everything they didn’t like, there would be a lot less comments by now.

  • mckroket65

    I think you all are being to hard on the Dutch and need to dial down your expectations. You have to remember that they are the children and grandchildren of the same people who thought it was a good idea to murder millions of innocent people 70 years ago and IMHO it is not possible to go from oppressive colonial over lords who built an empire on drug trafficking, gun running and slave trading to clog wearing bicycle riding happy people in a single generation. Seriously you need to give them a fair chance.

  • Young

    Jij leeft zeker in het westen?

  • Rouzbeh

    My experience says Sweden is the unfriendliest!!

  • Kamboj

    Situation is similar in India too – ” Corruption” is making sick to every one , yet most of the Indian do practice corruption as way of life ! it is much need to alter the community behaver and over come the issue of ‘unfriendly” and of course “corruption” too.

  • W Wasp

    I have lived in the Netherlands for 14 years and I can honestly say I have found that Dutch are the most friendly and welcoming people that I have met.Yes they can be blunt and a bit lacking in tact. But , who’s perfect !

  • agathe

    I have lived in holland for 2 years. What i have learned from the society are at least being hard worker, proving your existence among them, and being modest each other. They would give you a hand whenever there is a logical reason to do so. Even i found out that their directness is just simply a mode of honesty. Although in some situation I experienced strange look in their eyes when you enter their closed community, i csonsider it normal for society who relatively new with living with multinationals in their own land.

  • Holgol

    My goodness! You are using my old trolling name! I suppose you used to be Holgol? (How you laughed at the London riots…I suppose you cried at Project X?).

  • HOGOL4NEVER

    Read the post again. Where was the bragging? “We know the British Empire was a disgrace.” That is not bragging!

  • HOGOL4NEVER

    Btw – the Dutch are also becoming obese. I am sure you can search for the articles. As for chavs, close your silly coffee shops and stop exploiting women and those gross people will find another hovel to fly to on easyjet. Thanks for the link to the latest expat survey. I will let you know when I give a fuck.

  • fredflange

    The British Empire that is no more should be one of the least thing Brits nowadays should be ashamed for:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2248992/Christmas-2012-Drunken-revellers-cause-carnage-Britain.html

  • holgol
  • http://www.facebook.com/callum.vickers.37 Callum Vickers

    What a bloody stupid comment. How do riots show a nation up for being rude? they happen everywhere. There were riots in Vancouver,does it proove they are rude? Nope. Im an Aussie and i can ssure you the Netherlands is a shithole and Britain rocks. Eat shit Chavtown!

  • Jeremy

    In defence of the NL, the expat community is great.

  • TIPU

    No my dear, not even there engineers are competent, I am one and i never experienced such chaotic organisation of work like here . Even in the middle east the companies are more organized ! Here is my Project “”””7 ”” month in delay because of dutch steal works!

  • westrerner

    and the aussies r the most racist pple u could ever meet! jus look at the canola race riots back in 2005!!

  • maria

    You know, I haven’t had this experience at all. But I did move to Limburg… I hear they are nice in these parts.

  • mau mau

    If you like butt ugly sluts. Drunk hooligans. People fighting on the streets. Then yeah, Britain rocks.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2255587/New-Years-Eve-2012-Shameful-scenes-booze-fuelled-chaos-cities-Britain.html

  • Theirsteel

    Judging from your spelling mistakes, maybe your ramblings were misunderstood.

  • forKnowledge

    Can’t say I’m surprised… After spending 3 years in the Netherlands, I honestly HATE anything remotely Dutch, from Tulips to Gouda. I’m not proud of it, just telling the truth. The healthcare system nearly destroyed me (and it’s *not* a political statement, as I’ve received good medical care in the US, France, Indonesia and misc other places). Systemic greed, incompetence, endless meetings with no action, racism against all foreigners, rudeness, regular insulting comments (where the speaker doesn’t even notice insulting you/your country/your values), being blamed any time you raise a legitimate grievance, bigots who pretend not to speak English (because foreigners MUST speak Dutch), arrogance, lack of compassion, extreme conformism, avoiding any social conflict etc I have a very long list. I had *never* hated an entire country before, but should the NL sink tomorrow, I’d be incapable of feeling ANY compassion (except for the foreigners). The rational part in me realizes there must be some decent Dutch people somewhere, but I can’t say I’ve met any during those 3 yrs (just a few superficially polite and distant ones), and at this point my level of hatred for the Netherlands is such that I truly don’t care.
    Moreover, most foreigners who’ve lived there express similar feelings (and I’m not talking about the usual “food-and-trivial-local-things-bashing” that any expat group occasionally engages in while abroad, but true full-blown hatred). Odd. I also can’t fancy why those who’ve never lived in the NL generally perceive the Dutch as “tolerant” or even “efficient” (not to mention “liberal”).
    Personally, I’ll avoid that country at all cost and very deliberately boycott any Dutch product and company bc I refuse to sponsor a country which has treated me – and many others – so deplorably for so long!

  • forKnowledge

    Kamcha, good luck to you! I often had this experience of the medical staff attempting to make you feel guilty eg variations of: we are trying to help you, so why do you complain (when the “help” most often consisted in empty words, no action, no results). DON’T LET THEM: you are entitled to your feelings and opinions. Point out that based on results, making you feel worse is a sign that *they* are failing. And if all else fails, think of the wonderful day when you get to leave the NL.

  • forKnowledge

    Add greedy to unsympathetic and incompetent. After 2 yrs of me insisting that my spouse – who has a chronic condition- be switched to a specific medication he was known to respond well to, the specialist finally agreed. Why so long? The medication was 8 euros more per month… We had to agree to pay the bloody 8 euros out of pocket (which we’d have agreed to on day 1)…

  • forKnowledge

    Haven’t met many “latin people” booking lunch 6 months in advance…

  • forKnowledge

    Your little speech about “living the same way, learning the language’ would convince only those who haven’t lived in the NL (and uses the common Dutch trick of “blaming the messenger”). I’ve lived in several countries on 3 continents, and always believed that little speech of yours… until the NL.
    Reread the title of the article, and explain why the NL ranks so low. Are you seriously going to claim that the foreigners who live in Holland are simply “intrinsically worse” than the foreigners living in the UK, Spain or Malaysia?

  • forKnowledge

    I don’t doubt that you’re shocked by the responses. But reread the title
    “Netherlands rated most unfriendly country for Expats”
    Do you really think that the problem is about bread & milk for lunch, or expats being unaware of the weather conditions? Or that the US ranks well because New-Yorkers are so polite in the subway?
    Your long post focuses on blaming the expats for failing to see how grand the NL truly is …
    Malaysia is so lucky to get “better expats” than the NL…
    I’m also not sure why most Dutch describe themselves as “Direct” when they are anything but direct and will avoid conflict and beat around the bush endlessly.

  • forKnowledge

    Again, a typical Dutch reply: blame the messenger (or anybody but yourself)…and manage to totally insult a bunch of ppl without even noticing it (here, the French are arrogant, the Moroccan and Tunisian are – at best – awful pizzaiolos, even though the topic has *nothing* to do with the French, Moroccans or Tunisians.

    Reread title, try to think:
    “Netherlands rated most unfriendly country for Expats”

    Seriously, you’re going to argue that the NL just gets “bad expats” compared to the UK, Spain or Malaysia?

    Btw it’s not specific to Amsterdam: imo, being an expat in Amsterdam is slightly better than in other areas bc at least there’s a larger community of foreigners and therefore slightly better options (healthcare, education, cultural events etc).
    That said, I’d prefer to be an expat in Burma rather than the NL without any hesitation

  • forKnowledge

    Title of the article:
    “Netherlands rated most unfriendly country for Expats”
    Comments under the article “simply” support this negative rating
    Yet you are hell-bent on changing the facts by berating and insulting those who disagree with you.
    Just curious; how often have you changed someone’s opinion by insulting that person?

    Good luck with that …

  • forKnowledge

    BS! I seriously doubt you have any serious experience with any other healthcare system. Otherwise it’d be obvious to you that waiting several months to see a specialist is not a sign of quality (and has *nothing* to do with pharmaceutical companies), or that a family doctor who never checks even your vitals is … unbelievably sloppy…
    And being forced to give birth at home without an epidural is an acceptable form of delivery… in Sub-Saharan Africa. Heck, even the Dutch Royals seek treatment in the UK because the NL doesn’t treat coma patients older than 25. I’ve never seen an industrialized country outside the NL where doctors systematically advise you to take paracetamol (if only bc doctors are aware of the risk).
    Pain is ignored mainly bc of Calvinism.

    Your claim that “Americans are pumping people full of pills” is also way off: it would depend on the doctor, which – unlike the NL – you’re free to choose. The main problem with US healthcare is obviously not its quality, but its cost and the number of uninsured ppl.
    But best of luck to your liver: paracetamol + booze do wonders…

  • forKnowledge

    I can conceive that being a foreign student almost anywhere is fun, as long as you’re surrounded by a bunch of fun ppl.

    But your response to

    “Netherlands rated most unfriendly country for Expats” is… blame the immigrants, blame and insult the French.
    Sounds very Dutch to me …

  • forKnowledge

    Why? Because the truth is unpleasant to hear?

  • forKnowledge

    Dutch food is revolting, regardless of the citizenship of the messenger.

  • forKnowledge

    Yes, your own comment is perfectly condescending and also a very good illustration of what is so disliked about the Dutch. Of course you fail to see it.
    And logic isn’t your forte: blaming the expats because
    “Netherlands rated most unfriendly country for Expats” makes no sense.
    And trying to invalidate the article or the comments based on the obvious fact that “people haven’t lived in all places” is beyond ridiculous.

    If a group of people dislikes a specific car model, can I just ignore the data based on the fact that “nobody has driven all the cars on the market”?

    As for the nauseating “why not try their luck elsewhere”, and the insipid “keep smiling”, they’re self-explanatory for any foreigner stuck in the NL.

  • forKnowledge

    True, sadly the other Dutch cities are far worse.
    And your passive-aggressive comment doesn’t serve any purpose other than being annoying.

  • forKnowledge

    Done that, in a few countries incl South-East Asia, where even if you learn the language, you’ll clearly be standing out as a foreigner. Had a wonderful time in each and every country, until I reached the NL.

    If you’d read the comments more carefully instead of lecturing ppl about integration and blaming “expat-bubbles”, you’d realize that several ppl have reached a similar conclusion.

  • holgol

    Have you read the latest expat survey? http://www.expatexplorer.hsbc.com/#/countries
    Where in that survey is there any mention of the Netherlands being the most unfriendly?

  • holgol

    The fact is that the Netherlands is not rated most unfriendly:
    http://www.expatexplorer.hsbc.com/#/countries

  • holgol

    You keep mentioning the title of the article, and yet you are too stupid to have a look at the original study. If you did you would have found out that nowhere in that survey the Netherlands was rated the most unfriendly country.

  • holgol

    I am glad you left. The Netherlands changed for the better the moment you crossed the border.

  • holgol

    The US doesn’t rank well. In fact when you check all criteria, it does worse then the Netherlands:
    http://www.expatexplorer.hsbc.com/#/countries

  • forKnowledge

    Yes, the NL ranks 26 out of 30. Behind eg Singapore, Thailand, HKong, Mexico, Malaysia, China, Spain, Vietnam, Germany, India, Japan, the US, France and even Saudi-Arabia.

    Except for SArabia (which I have never visited), I’d pick ANY of those countries over the NL in a New-York minute, esp since they ALL offer better healthcare facilities than the NL which – I grant you- isn’t saying much given that the Dutch medical oath seems to be “First do nothing, then discuss it endlessly, then pass the buck”.

    But congrats to the NL for ranking better than Kuwait!

  • holgol

    If you check experience alone (which this article is about) then the Netherlands ranks 19.

  • Colin

    I am British (Scottish actually, and yes we’re pretty tight before anyone says) and I’ve lived here for five years and they have been the worst five years of my life. The Dutch are stupid, lazy, arrogant, boring, bureaucratic, xenophobic racists with no common sense, no culture, no good food and no common sense.

    As has been written before, the mantra of this country is ‘it cannot be done.’ Want to change your phone provider? It can’t be done. Want to change your gas company? It can’t be done. Want to do anything? Sorry – it can’t be done. I would however like to add another mantra – ‘you have to pay.’ That is one thing the Dutch are very good at – extracting every last damn penny out of you. From their oppressive taxes to having to call a 10ct/min number for anything, to the surprise charges on almost every contract, to ticket inspectors fining you 45EUR for using the wrong ticket at 2 minutes to 9, the price of fuel, the price of road tax, the price of parking, the price of their really bad food.

    And let’s take a look at the average Dutch person; unfriendly, cold, impossible to be friends with, judgemental, rude. In five years here I haven’t made a single Dutch friend – all of mine are foreigners, and they all share my opinions. It apparently counts for nothing to these creatures that I pay into the system six times what one of them does, on average. Do you think that stood me in good stead when I was made redundant? Of course not.

    Dutch incompetence has cost me tens of thousands of Euros; problems with my income tax, problems with the mortgage on my house, problems with city tax, problems with just about anything you could name.

    Don’t get me started about the Dutch working culture. I am plagued by competence-related problems of my (Dutch) staff. Don’t think about actually holding any of them to the conditions of their employment or they’ll have one of their famous burnouts. A BURN OUT. My secretary had a six-week burn-out followed by a six-week gradual re-integration due to the ‘stress’ I caused her by writing her up for her continued lateness and absences.

    I utterly despise this country and everyone in it and I am actively looking to move elsewhere. I’ve lived in Africa, I’ve traveled extensively throughout the entire world, and there is not a worse nation on Earth than the Netherlands.

  • http://www.facebook.com/callum.vickers.37 Callum Vickers

    You are using the Daily Mail to proove your point. Shows how much you know your moron. Why dont you die???

  • http://www.facebook.com/callum.vickers.37 Callum Vickers

    Who said i liked Australia?

  • http://www.facebook.com/callum.vickers.37 Callum Vickers

    Emigration is at an all time lo. If you dont like the UK,Dont fucking you come you fucking cuntfucked shitcunt!!!

  • holgol

    DM is the second biggest “newspaper” in the UK. The Sun being the biggest. Don’t blame the Dutch for the fact that Brits have no taste in newspapers.

  • holgol

    What a typical British xenophobic reply. Is that the politeness Brits are always bragging about?

  • Mauro

    I agreed with you…and they aren’t direct (as they claimed to be) they are hyprocrites and fake…

  • Mauro

    Cheers mate,
    the best part “the locals have ingenious schemes of taking money out of your pocket and will fight for 5 cents of their own” totally right!!! hope when I get transfered somewhere else I will not find any Dutchesss on my way…

  • Mauro

    Medical system in NL on of the best in the world???? Bullshitsssss – seems like you never been out of NL (farmerland)

  • Mauro

    Great sentence Cisxo _ I love Germans, they are way better (huge different) from the Dutchess…might be because they use their brains :)

  • Mauro

    it’s the most unfriendly and the Public Transport (NS) is a piece of crap (dutch technology btw) I wish the germans could take over the Dutch public transport and make it work as should be,,,

  • Mauro

    Dutch girls stinks like onions and cheese —-oh!! and like beer

  • Mauro

    I bet your situation is different – Spain is a hell of country –not jobs, no money, no opporunities…e.t.c. Any country to escape will be great for you

  • Mauro

    they are not direct – they are fake. Hope I don’t see any Dutch when I’m FINALLY back in my home country

  • Mauro

    they will suck your money out and then push you away when you are totally bankrupt…

  • Mauro

    I feel your pain _ i’m on the same situation

  • Mauro

    at least the Germans wil…

  • Mauro

    they are fake, jealous & Intolerant!!!

  • Mauro

    awesome comment – I love Germans – Dutch are a crap of peole

  • Cédric

    Are
    u kinding me ? Politeness, kindness, cleanness, high standard quality
    education, tolerance toward otherness (even tolerance to radicalism), social security, good wages, excellent medical institutions…
    How was this rating done ? As far as I am concern I hardly see some
    better countries for expats than The Netherlands… And I traveled a lot… Okay if u’d like to find people who would warmly clap in your back or hug you, go in Southern America or North Africa… but you’ll also found a lot of problems as well…

  • mckroket65

    It has nothing to do with the quality of one thing or the other or whether a Dutchman will hold open a door for someone. That is all trivial. The problem is deeper and more sinister. The best way to explain it is with a quote from Teddy Roosevelt.

    We should insist that if the immigrant who comes here does in good faith become an American and assimilates himself to us he shall be treated on an exact equality with every one else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed or birth-place or origin.

    But this is predicated upon the man’s becoming in very fact an American and nothing but an American. If he tries to keep segregated with men of his own origin and separated from the rest of America, then he isn’t doing his part as an American. There can be no divided allegiance here. . . We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language, for we intend to see that the crucible turns our people out as Americans, of American nationality, and not as dwellers in a polyglot boarding-house; and we have room for but one soul loyalty, and that is loyalty to the American people.

    This means that if someone acts in good faith and tries to assimilate ? Then they are met with open arms and treated fairly. This why so many people choose to be an American.

    The Dutch way is quite different and can be summed up in a single quote.

    It is not much if it is not Dutch.

    It may sound funny and said tongue in cheek but it really means there is no amount of effort on your part that will ever allow yourself to become a real part of Dutch society other than someone who pays taxes and possibly abuse ( in their eyes ) the social welfare system.

    You can be a genius, work like a energizer bunny and speak fluent Dutch but if you have a funny last name or accent ? You are worthy of suspicion and contempt and your opportunities for success are severely limited.

    This is the reason why the Netherlands in rated so unfriendly towards expats of ALL origins.

  • Holgol is mentally ill

    Fred Flange was my old trolling name. You spend far too long searching for newspaper articles. Go out and get a life. I am actually feeling guilty that I have had such an affect on you. You really are mentally unwell. At least now you have moved on from the British Empire to the minority who irritate the shite out of most of the normal people in the UK. The problem with you “Holgol” is that you come out with comment against the British (on a Dutch News sight in an old article about how people find the Netherlands unfriendly…..why?) but you forget that the Dutch also had a disgusting empire. You mention British obesity, forgetting that the Netherlands also has a problem with obesity. The London Riots – another one of your obsessions. Has there never been a riot in the Netherlands? What was project x all about? Please don’t answer those questions, I am not interested in the answers. Why don’t you go outside and enjoy the wonderful flat scenery the Netherlands has to offer? Go on “holgol” get a fucking life!

  • forKnowledge

    And you think that calling ppl “too stupid” will further demonstrate how friendly you are?
    Fyi “Unfriendly for expats” is synonymous with “unattractive” in that context. You could say eg that Venice is not “car friendly”. Such a construct obviously has nothing to do with “buddies exchanging jokes with expats (or cars)”. And note that I don’t call you “too stupid” simply bc you might not know something …

  • forKnowledge

    And why on Earth would I tweak the parameters to maximize the ranking of the NL? Or perhaps you’re trying to tell me that you’re more qualified than me to determine which factors are the most relevant to me?
    And the HSBC survey – with all its flaws – is one source among many. My main source re:NL being my personal experience (and that of other foreigners I know).
    So perhaps now you’ll stop sending me annoying insulting replies to try to convert me to your views…

  • holgol

    If you don’t want replies then don’t post insulting comments, but start a blog.
    This news item is about the HSBC survey. It isn’t about other sources. There are 3 parameters in the survey: economy, raising children and experience. Since this news item is about friendliness it makes sense to only look at experience.

  • forKnowledge

    There are way more than 3 parameters under the 3 main categories you mention (eg swimming pool, and what not).
    And I’ve explained to you elsewhere that “friendly” in this context does not refer to what you initially thought.
    Again, you’re not going to convert me to your views by behaving like a leech.
    Go skying or something…cause sending me annoying stubborn repetitive replies won’t make me change my views on the NL, Get over it!

  • holgol

    I am not interested in converting you. You can have any opinion you want. You made repeated references to the HSBC survey and the title of this news item. In the HSBC survey the Netherlands is not declared the most expat unfriendly country.
    As for your opinion, the moment a rude person like you would start to like the Netherlands I would be very worried.

  • Evoyne

    The first paragraph “The Netherlands has been rated among the most unfriendliest countries in the world for expatriates by Forbes magazine, while Canada is rated the most friendliest country for expats.”

  • Dave

    I’m a 36 year old Australian. I’ve lived in Penang (Malaysia), Singapore, Canada, Dubai, London, Afghanistan for 7 months, Timor for 8 months and since 2010 I’ve been living in the Netherlands. I would have to say this this the worst place I have ever had to endure. Every day I am waiting for the company to offer me my next assignment. The sooner the Netherlands is at my back the better. I would have thought the Asian countries or the Middle East would have topped the list… however they were a pleasure compared to here. For me its not the people at all! Its the shopping,stupid red-tape, small cars (where are the V8s- oh taxes that’d right), stupidly expensive fuel, very few cars running on gas, packaged single serving food, the processed food economy, bread that goes stale in a day or 2, flavourless hydro fruit, no lamb shanks / roasts in the supermarkets, Albert Heijn supermarkets, and lastly the worst overall customer service ever (why would you not help your customers if they are the only one in the store). The saving grace is my 30% ruling and the nice Tulips.

  • Mathijs

    On behalf of the Dutchies I would like to apologise for Anne, We are far from rude, as long as you dont piss us off. Thanks for your time.. May the force be with you.

  • Camargo

    Mathijs, Dutch people have to prove now that they’re nice. End of story.

  • Dutchie

    I completely agree. Of course, there are exceptions. Their general cultural rule, though, dictates they have to try to put down whoever is near them in order to boost their self-esteem, and they will happily do that at any occasion.

    Having grown up in this country I thought this was normal until I moved to another country for work. I have since lived in several countries. A year ago I came back to try and live in
    The Netherlands again, but seeing that Holland is really anything but an agreeable place to stay I am getting out of here as soon as possible.

    I have never seen in a society with so little empathy, such awkwardness -expressed through rude behaviour- (and I´ve lived in England too), such low levels of general knowledge and culture (can they really talk about anything else but smartphones, ipads and commercials), and people so content with whiling away a life in front of a TV screen.

  • fredflange

    I think it is your mother, the puta, you are smelling.

  • AllAtSea

    Radu look at my comment and see how many votes up there and see yours. Then decide who’s winy little b*tch.
    If you are numb/dumb enough to go over same Q&A session with every single person you meet, probably you will never understand what I am talking about but success :)

  • AllAtSea

    Thanks for putting yourself down. I don’t need to write much except the fact I didn’t tell drug addicts and homosexuals are not normal. I gave a clear message : Some components of Dutch tolerance are support for drug addicts or liberal rights for homosexuals. However when it comes to non-western immigrants you just see a hostile environment. See the guy you support : Wilders 😉
    I am not Muslim and I don’t think you are capable of understanding any decent opinion 😉

  • AllAtSea

    After 1 year would like to share my yearly review/survey :)
    I want to skip all this dutch weather, food nonesense people are talking here.
    Will give a short summary and a few tips.
    Like in every country there are good and bad people but ON AVERAGE :
    DUTCH PEOPLE ARE BRAINWASHED ZOMBIES
    Why brainwashed ?
    — Pay 110 euros min for basic insurance and 350 euros own risk, wait for months to see a specialist then think of having a very good health care system
    — Very high cost of living vs relatively poor salaries.
    — Do not ever self-criticize yourself even all people here are telling more or less the same thing even though they are coming from different cultures, backgrounds
    — Dress same, think same, do & talk same. Minimal variety (this one fitting very well to why zombies section as well)
    Why zombies ?
    — Slow, lazy, bureaucratic way of doing things
    — On average low EQ (all the fuss here about rude, xenophobic etc is all related to this)
    — Very limited intellectual repertoire.
    — IND is proof itself 😉 I should just wrote IND here :) Now all western expats here mostly do not know IND. I will explain very shortly : Think of a immigrant office there is no English menu when you call them :)

    Hints section :
    — Be ruder/more honest/more direct than them to show how well integrated you are.
    — Do not try to have service via phone. Service lines are mere illusion. Email will work faster and better.
    — Dodge Q&A sessions if you are coming from one of that not well respected countries by telling that you are from Mauıritus, Guatemala, Trinidad & Tobaggo. Just do not be serious. Make some fun. They will leave you alone or will speak normal :)
    — Find and stick with Dutch who lived abroad for a while since others will be mostly in the constant state of denial and delusion.

    Facts about me :

    – I managed to have a very lovely Dutch girlfriend by filtering out good one from average one.
    – Was lucky enough to have a great colleague (a Dutch who spent many years in US so knows how does it feel to be a foreigner) from the day first.
    – I am Turkish but I am blond and and and…. I am not muslim but an agnostic. WTF ? I see Dutch zombies with mouth wide open !

  • forKnowledge

    Again, the NL ranks 26th out of 30 in the survey *you* provided the link for.
    As for being rude, I personally *never* insult anyone online while you seem to find it ok to label me “too stupid” somewhere else in this thread bc I disagree with you…

  • forKnowledge

    The US ranks 22nd, the NL 26th.
    To state the obvious, 26th is worse than 22nd.

  • Theo

    A lot of self made globetrotters know all better. But only people how still live with their thoughts in their own little world would believe nations are good or bad instead of people.
    If you look on the page you see Holland is choosen as
    – worst place for expats to live
    – number 5 place in the world to live
    – best place to do business

    Being a Dutch guy who lived more then 10 years in different places ouside holland I dont take any of the surveys serious, nor any comment written below

  • fiona

    I am Dutch and I can completely understand that people all around the world find that the Dutch people come off as rude and unsocial. On behalf of all Dutch people, I utterly and genuinely apologise !!!

    I have been living in London for 8 years and I work as a private Dutch teacher and actress. My Dutch students usually learn Dutch because their company moves them to a position in the Netherlands or because they married someone Dutch and want to be able to speak Dutch with the family in law, children, etc. I get mixed reports from the Brits about the Dutch. The Brits that like the Dutch and feel comfortable with them, are usually quite outspoken people who say what they think and like this in others. The people that find the Dutch very difficult, are people who generally need a warmer approach from the Dutch in order to understand them in the right way. The Dutch are very blunt and, although commonly with genuine interest and care behind what they say, they do not understand that, to foreigners, it comes of untactful and in fact, UNcaring. Example: a Dutch student of mine went for a job interview and she was turned down, and the employer sat down with her to explain why she failed. This is a common thing in the Netherlands, for people to explain their choice, with the pure intend to inform the interviewee and to be honest about their reasons, e.g. “we were looking for very specific requirements”, so to not leave the person wondering why they were turned down and to feel they failed personally, as a person, as well as to give them a chance to improve for the future, for similar functions. This approach, what we as Dutch people mean as a form of honesty and solidarity, however quickly comes off as rude and painful and inconsiderate to people from other cultures, where such a scenario would never happen. My student was, understandably, really baffled and upset and devastated. I of course supported and comforted her and then helped her understand the differences in culture. The next time she went to the Netherlands, and the same thing happened, she took it in an entirely different way and was also a lot more successful in getting on with the Dutch and creating Dutch friendships. I found that, as part of my job, it is vital that I do not just teach the language, but also teach the cultural differences that come with the language and how things are meant. With this help all of my students, without exception, have in the end loved the Dutch people and culture, being able to understand their genuine motivations behind their “blunt” ways and sometimes even finding liberation in the truthfulness of it (no hidden messages, falseness, etc.)

    HOWEVER, I realise that, although behind the bluntness of the Dutch there IS heart, doesn’t eliminate the way it comes off and feels to people who don’t get this!! I COMPLETELY understand the upset it causes to foreigners trying to make a life for themselves in the Netherlands. Unfortunately the Dutch, being used to this way of communicating, generally do not realise that this is going on.

    I personally, even as a Dutchie, would say that the Dutch are socially clumsy, way too rational, not warm and heartfelt in their ways and really unskilled at how to show their compassion in a way that actually shows as compassionate. I also think that the endless political debate that exists in the Netherlands as a result of the democratic structure, has taught the Dutch people wrongly that they have to use reason to prove a point, and they have become very skilled at this, which is at the least annoying. This too, can get in the way of them being able to put compassion before ‘right or wrong’. I agree with the comments in this forum that say that the Dutch are quick to defend themselves and find ways to “win” through hardcore rational “attack” (the almost negative spectrum of free speech and non-hierarchy culture), instead of just LISTENING, from their heart, whether they agree or not, or feel criticised or not.

    I have no plans at all of moving back to the Netherlands and would personally like to live in San Francisco, where I spent 2 months and felt really happy. I feel that San Francisco has some of the good aspects of the Dutch culture that make me feel at home (such as promoting gay marriage and equal social standards plus people are generally down to earth), however the people in San Francisco are a lot warmer, are outspoken but in a much more positive and friendly way, are more helpful and assisting and simply have better overall people skills. Also, they support each other in fulfilling their dreams in life, and do not have the ‘high poppy syndrome’ like the Dutch have. By this I mean that, what I miss in the Dutch culture is people reaching for their biggest dreams and not being scared or acting falsely modest about it, and people supporting each other in this too, rather than shaming each other for being ambitious! Breaking out of this ‘high poppy syndrome’, where free self-expression and ambition are quickly shut down or marked as “arrogant”, “over the top” or “unnecessary”, has been very liberating for me. I am a creative person by nature, I am an actress and also studied fine arts, and my Dutch fear of coming off as too arrogant has for years made me feel too insecure to fulfil my dreams. Now, I am letting go of this weird shame of simply aiming for the things that I enjoy and that make me happy, and I feel a lot more honest to myself and grounded as a person. At this moment I have got two acting jobs in movies and I am not scared and ashamed anymore to be openly happy with my own success and to share with people to joy of having a creative outlet.

    It is possible to be very successful AND down to earth at the same time, something the Dutch don’t seem to really understand or embrace! If anything, I am MUCH MORE down to earth and ‘real’ as a person, as well as more open to other people, since I have let go of this false modesty –> simply because it is more real to be open about the dreams in my heart and to follow them, than not!
    Dutchies, it takes courage and vulnerability to take risks in life, not arrogance! I wish we could be more supportive and positively encouraging to each other this way in the Netherlands.

    All in all, I think the Dutch have a lot to learn about what it really means to have personal freedom, freedom of speech and simply to be yourself. Being blunt and rational, isn’t it. Honesty, yes (I am not a fan of fake politeness or fake friendliness), but I believe that with true honesty also comes compassion and speaking to people from the heart. I think the Dutch are perhaps not so free and compassionate to THEMSELVES, even though they claim to be, and therefore they can’t really be this to others, even though they really want to be and intend to be.

    If you are currently living in the Netherlands as a foreigner or are considering to move there, all I can say is all the best with it and try not to read too much into the blunt and inconsiderate things the Dutch say to you, and to give them a chance. Remember: that there is NEVER a pun intended with anything they say – because if there was, they would say EXACTLY whatever that pun was, that’s how direct they are!! Being a 100% serious!

    Thank you for reading and love to all :)

  • niko

    For a country that travels well. I visited Amsterdam once, what you have got to learn is somethings are cultural. The Dutch are very nice, and they did not have the arrogance of the Germans or English. They are more open and tolerant, but you can only do that so far.

    Canada maybe nice, but people do not mix like in Holland.

  • dalsjdask

    I appreciate the direct approach, then you know where you are with people. There is no understatement of problems, that is a classic British behaviour.

  • Youri van der Weide

    The problem is that all these things that you mentioned are changeable. They change over the course of time, but the way Dutch people act towards others and behave is much more difficult to change. Southern American countries may be corrupt and have a lot of other problems (inequality etc.) but all that is changing. Just like Europe used to be a shithole in the 19th century, but it has all changed since. But the people’s attitude? They don’t change so easily. Moreover, there are other countries with good health care and all the things you mentioned and where the people are much friendlier.

    Let’s be honest, I wouldn’t say the Dutch are the most unfriendly people in the world, however they are without a doubt unfriendly in general.

    You want to know why the Dutch are regarded as unfriendly? Just read your own post. Most Dutch are arrogant, showing off with all the stuff your country has, but money can buy you a lot. Good wages, social security, okay education and okay medical institutions (note that I say okay, because compared to some other countries it’s not that ‘excellent’ at all), but it will never buy you class. Politeness and kindness? Sure, they are relatively polite (just relatively, for their politeness isn’t that stupendous at all). Most Dutch don’t even know that it isn’t polite to keep looking at their smartphones while they’re in company of others. Kindness, I won’t even comment on that statement.

  • Youri van der Weide

    This is not about expectations. The Dutch are in general unfriendly, like it or not. This isn’t about being direct either, I’ve been to so many countries where the people were ‘direct’, but in so many of these countries most of these people were friendlier. I could write a really big story explaining this, but let’s not do that. I’ll resume it shortly: most expats I’ve talked to say that Dutch people are really closed, it’s really hard to befriend one. When you finally become acquainted to one and you try to befriend them and invite them to some party or something else they never have time, but when they are going somewhere themselves with their friends they don’t even bother to invite you. They make these sarcastic remarks just to put you down, like when you state something they say, ‘No, really?’ and they start acting like you’re stupid. Things like that, it just really difficult to get close to Dutch people. This isn’t just me saying, virtually almost every foreigner that I’ve met here says.

  • Youri van der Weide

    I’ve checked experience, however, there are so many criteria that have nothing to do with the people of a country being friendly or not. For instance ‘finding an accommodation’, all nice and well, but what does it tell about the people? Nothing. So, I tweaked out all the criteria that had nothing to do with making friend and the results were this, The Netherlands was almost at the bottom. Only Saudi Arabia, Vietnam and India did worse.

  • Kate

    Being in the Netherlands was very…..unusual. I had a hard time being there. In many of the shops and restaurants we went to we were treated with open hostility. At one cafe it seemed the waitress wouldn’t have bothered to serve if it hadn’t been for our Dutch friend who was with us. Getting help for anything, even in tourist or hospitality related industry was frustrating. But then again I am thinking from a very Americanized view point. I think many Dutch don’t intend to be openly hostile. It’s just their culture. Americans seem to view friendliness by openness, ability to smile and helpfulness etc. That’s why we got quite a shock in The Netherlands where they seemed to us to be reserved, somewhat unhelpful. It was a culture shock just to see so many people wearing the color black! Especially coming from a town with rather flamboyant dress. So, it’s hard to judge them too harshly or critically. The Dutch are just very different from us Americans and that’s why they seem so rude. You really want rude, visit Russia. But that’s a whole other topic.

  • Yoda

    The article is not recent, but the topic is more alive than ever..I’m Dutch and my partner is an expat and so are all of the friends..I must say that before we knew each other I never thought about the difficulties that this group of people must face. I can really agree that the Netherlands makes it really difficult for foreigners to ‘for starters..come here, then find a house (not possible, and the prices..ridiculous), to bond with our native inhabitants (a large group of the Dutch society is prejudiced) and if you áre able to do all these things and you would like to stay longer, it will be even more difficult. And then I did not even speak of the tax system and justiciable law problems. People that work here obviously pay taxes ‘on there salary, on the products they consume, on their house..on EVERYTHING’ but when someone that lives here for an longer period of time, comes without a job…nothing! they have to go back to their mother country..and there also: nothing…As you can see I am frustrated by the way that our government influences this and do try to change the vision on this topic due to my involvement in politics.

  • jan

    i’m dutch and i can honestly say; we think money talks and it shluld be our number 1 driving force

  • abdul

    inshallah yall, let me get this straight. im living in bergen, norway for more than 20 years and i can honestly say, scandinavian people esp. girls are the most distant, haughty folk of europe.

  • proud american

    whats a ”europe”

  • http://www.facebook.com/MarinusCDN Marinus R Mellaart

    Wow, your ethnicity is showing. Since Portugal is known for its human rights abuse (see Amnesty International), or its abuse to its ex colonies (see Brasil, or North Africa) your comments fall flat. Is Portugal not one of the countries looking for bailouts from the Northern Europeans? Are you not aware how they feel about bailing you out for your own overspending and lack of banking policies? Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones. Judge not lest you be judged. As for discrimination – the Dutch have let in more foreigners in than Portugal ever has. Its weird that I have been reading about Baruch Spinoza – his family had to leave the intolerance in Portugal to thrive in the Netherlands.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch_Spinoza

  • http://www.facebook.com/MarinusCDN Marinus R Mellaart

    I always wonder why people bitch about the foreign countries they live in, must be because their “Homeland” is full of the same idiots they are and want to spread their ignorance! LOL!

  • Lazydaisy

    I am a Brit, who had lived in France for five years and I am now going to spend a year in the Netherlands. I keep finding all this negative stuff about the Dutch, and it surprises me because I worked in tourism for 20 years and the dutch were our favourite customers. (We used to say – the way to know a Dutch person from a German is… the Dutch person is smiling.) I have also found the Dutch I meet here in France are very friendly and nice. So, why the total lack of charm when they are at home?

  • Lazydaisy

    That sounds bad…. I am moving to the Netherlands in May and am a qualified counseller and therapeutic hypnotherapist. You should always have counselling in your own language – and a therapist should not be impatient! If anyone wants an appointment, contact me here!

  • Lazydaisy

    What a rude and sneering comment. Didn’t you have anything real to say?

  • Lazydaisy

    Why do you assume that other people are stupid? And why do you assume that he has not read the original study?

  • Roderick

    Wow surprised by the comments! I’m a Dutch National so I don’t know much about how expats are treated in the Netherlands but I definitely didn’t expect this! I spent quite some time abroad (India, USA, SA) and never felt unwelcome most be awful to feel unappreciated/unwelcome. Many expats below clearly indicate to feel The Dutch are everything but hospitable! To them first of all my apologies and some hope for the future as I believe it will get better as I hear nothing but positive feedback from fellow- (international) students. Maybe it has something to do with the generation, I honestly can’t think of anything else…. Also The Netherlands heavily depends on the trade with other (EU) countries, which has been the case for ages, so it’s so weird we don’t treat them like they should be treated e.g. with respect and be welcomed with open arms!

  • Roderick

    Reading the comments on this page there is more than enough work for you in The Netherlands :-), anyway hope your time in The Netherlands will be great, or at least much better than that of the others who commented on this page!

  • Lazydaisy

    Thank you! I wonder if the Dutch don’t allow their rude, obnoxious citizens to leave the country – because all the Dutch I have met in the UK and France have been really lovely people. For anyone who defends the right to be sneering, cold, hurtful and unfriendly (thinking it is “honesty”) they should know that a little charm and warmth make the world go around. The time to be “honest” is in business and politics, not just to indulge yourself by making unnecessary personal comments. If you have nothing nice to say, say nothing. There is no point in speaking lots of languages if you only use that to be nasty; and people won’t bother to learn your language if you sneer at their efforts. As the saying goes “kindness is a language which the deaf can hear and the blind can read”.

  • fredflange

    Whereas all those comments about the Dutch aren’t rude?

  • fredflange

    Don’t forget that it were the Portuguese who started the transatlantic slave trade.

  • Lazydaisy

    “Theirsteel” was not making a comment about the survey, or whether or not the Dutch are rude, he was just sneering and finding fault with something which is completely irrelevant, because this comments thread is not a spelling test. It is that sort of unnecessary spitefulness which makes people unpopular. Unless it is relevant to the discussion, it is kinder to keep your opinions to yourself. I am not Dutch, but I have met hundreds of Dutch people while working in tourism in the UK and France – and I have – honestly! – NEVER met a Dutch person I didn’t like, so I am interested to see that I am in the minority! I certainly find many of the comments which are made about the Dutch are hurtful – but the point of the discussion is that, (apparently,) the Dutch are proud of saying exactly what they feel when they feel, without caring about other people’s feelings – and then say they mean no harm, they are just “blunt”, or “honest”. Well, what goes around, comes around. If you don’t like recieving “blunt, honest comments”, then don’t give “blunt, honest comments” to others. I am British, and am coming to live in the Netherlands for a year, specifically because I have always liked the Dutch people I have met. I am learning the language, and I will of course live within the law and not dispute local customs – I want to share these, and I want to make friends. But if I find that the rumours are true, and I am given unwanted opinions about personal matters, then the “blunt, honest” Dutch person giving those opinions will find out exactly how venomous and erudite a “polite” person from the Celtic Fringe can be.

  • Andre Marceau

    you’re just an assimilator. A Dutch person’s asslicker most likely.

  • Andre Marceau

    Typically Dutch.

  • Andre Marceau

    The Dutch Government was a colonial power. You and your people are nothing, and have done nothing whatsoever.

  • rvh

    After reading this little gem of dutch hatred, I kind of agree, seeing as being dutch myself I can however say my province and region shares both things (SRE – Region) Abit of burgundic pleasantry (or not) and northern import coldness. I hate thee Philips for that.

    However, the coldness and closed society is because several things happened in the past, including: The end of the Golden Age (Created the soberness and coldness and xenophobic attitude) , the slower start of the industrial revolution (The former Staats regions were faster in that regard even, must hurt too, that a region held under occupation for 300 years* recovered quicker then the core regions) and the notice that you’re not a world player anymore must hurt too.

    *300 years under occupation, might be, priests werent allowed to preach, higher taxrates, armed garrisons in the major cities, and that all for 300 years, bit too long. It’ still amazes me that Noord-Brabant and Limburg didn’t join the Belgium revolt. (admitted we’re not under occupation anymore, bless the French Empire for that 😀 )

  • http://www.facebook.com/callum.vickers.37 Callum Vickers

    Lol,the English and the Germans are so openly critical of themselves,that you would have been to be such a horrid person to get on their nerves!

  • http://www.facebook.com/callum.vickers.37 Callum Vickers

    Perhaps if the others were cheaper,they would buy them.

  • dingdongthebitchisdead

    Don’t blame the Dutch that the British are cheap.

  • paperdetective

    As a Dutcman who traveled, worked and lived all over the world and just came back from many years in teh USA, I can vouch for Dutchie’s experience in coming back here. I’ll also be gone again asap. What attarcte dme to come back was the compact living in Holland and the high mobility due to a good transportation infrastructure. But the consistent rudeness here is overwhelming. In Amerixca they would call it ‘daily assault’. It is like living in an anarchistic state. The rudeness comes from an increasing adversarial view of one’s fellow man here and the accompanying growth in dishonesty. Hypocriosy is main stream here. Just look for example preachy Dutchmen are towards others, real know it alls. It is a defense mechanism grown from knowing how mediocre one’s own society is, with poor health care, ‘doll house size homes’, cheapness abounding in its products and services (I do not mind frugality at all, but just providing a lot of JUNK that is not right!). One finds little ‘value for money’ here nowadays. Cars are overpriced, tiny, uncomfortable and bare. Food is mediocre (it used to be better, no more). Most services are government controlled, through ‘pretend privatization’. The maniacal ‘consensus culture’ here makes the ‘process’ more impoprtant than ‘the end result’. A Dutchman will stick to procedures no matter if his company falters because of it. It is like dealing with nothing but ‘bureaucrats’ here. The sense of life is accordingly, quite ‘dark’. A ‘can do’ person is rare here. I think I’ll go more South in Europe, where there is still some joy of life.

  • paperdetective

    Right, everything here in Holland is ‘by appointment only. Try that with a Latin friend or family member!

  • DesireBaker

    I am Dutch and I actually pride myself on being kind to people, if they are lost, like so many tourists or new expats, I try to show them the way to where they are going if I know it. Yes I am honest and may sometimes come across as being blunt, but I only give my honest opinion when asked for it. Saying that as a whole we are rude is rude in and of itself and quite hurtful actually. Go outside of the big cities and you will see that kind, warm and welcoming dutch people do exist! Saying we are all cold, rude etc is like me saying all Americans are dumb rednecks. It simply is mean, hurtful and untrue!

  • A bit of truth

    Ahah funny that you from Netherlands, one of the very good colonists of the world (Indonesia, Dutch Antilles, Suriname etc.) blames another country for colonial acts :))

    When it comes to bail outs, we all know that you cannot get a penny from a Dutch if he doesn’t believe that he will benefit from it in the end himself :))

  • http://twitter.com/kajdijkstra masterblaster

    So everyone in the netherlands has to become a engineer :)

  • http://twitter.com/kajdijkstra masterblaster

    No, the National slogan is : Eendracht maakt macht, “Unity makes strength”. Really 😛

  • http://twitter.com/kajdijkstra masterblaster

    Did you know Dutch children are the happiest children in the world. Type in in google “Happiest children in the world”.

  • http://twitter.com/kajdijkstra masterblaster

    No he meant no culture has the monopoly to define what is rude and what is not rude.

  • http://twitter.com/kajdijkstra masterblaster

    He is an troll he has already commented 20 times or so on this subject to bash the Netherlands.

  • http://twitter.com/kajdijkstra masterblaster

    Rotterdam is like the Bronx if the Netherlands and he is generalizing all of the netherlands on the experiences he ha’d there :P.

  • http://twitter.com/kajdijkstra masterblaster

    You can read a e-book on your phone or ipad 😛

  • http://twitter.com/kajdijkstra masterblaster

    That is the most stupid think i ever heard, “it ain’t much if it ain’t dutch” is joke we make about things for example a music track that is made by someone with a dutch nationality. For example my favorite music producer is someone with the dutch nationality (not native ) but still we say it ain’t much if it ain’t dutch (And this is real). Someone who talks dutch and behaves dutch is being treated as a dutch.. You are just trolling.

  • http://twitter.com/kajdijkstra masterblaster

    We don’t.

  • http://twitter.com/kajdijkstra masterblaster

    This is about clothing that covers your whole face like niqab.

  • http://twitter.com/kajdijkstra masterblaster

    Most dutch HATE Geert Wilders.

  • Lazydaisy

    You don’t what?

  • http://twitter.com/kajdijkstra masterblaster

    we don’t lack charm when we are at home :)

  • Lazydaisy

    What’s wrong with appointments? I LIKE to know what I am doing with my day. And people who insult me by being late or not arriving are awful. I have lived in the south of France for years, and their ideas about timekeeping drive me mad. They have a saying “c’est ne pas grave!” = it’s not important. But they are only relaxed when it is YOUR time they are wasting. If anything goes wrong with THEIR day they become hysterical.

  • Lazydaisy

    Of course you don’t, sweetheart. 😉

  • Lazydaisy

    Of course you don’t, Sweetheart. 😉

  • Lazydaisy

    Of course you don’t, sweetheart. 😉

  • Lazydaisy

    Of course you don’t, Sweetheart. 😉

  • Lazydaisy

    Of course you don’t, sweetheart. 😉

  • Lazydaisy

    Of course you don’t, sweetheart!

  • anna

    “most unfiendliest…”, is that proper English?

  • Buitenlander

    One of the best medical systems in the world, eh?

    Why on Earth would such a great system give Paracetamol for child labour pains, or a broken back (as has happened to friends I know here)?

  • nvh

    Wat een gezeik.

  • expattmg

    typical dutch response….blame the individual for “ethnic flaws”

  • Malena

    Hellooo, am I living somewhere else or is it really that bad and I don’t see it? I moved to Holland a year ago and by now I have Dutch friends who are so supportive and we always have so much fun together. I have lived in England for 2 years before and in Italy for a year, surprisingly living in Holland is the easiest so far in terms of communicating with locals… of course I miss the beautiful landscape of Italy and the easy language of England but I definitely cannot complain about Dutchies being nice to me…especially since I’m not even European…

  • Malena

    obviously you like it so much that you stayed there for more than 20 years.

  • Su

    I don’t understand why people here talking about that ”some dutch people are good,nice” etc. This is a news that posted here and I think this is shows how dutch people are shallow. Of course every country has ” some good people ” but it’s clearly obvious that in Netherlands there is not much people who you could speak in a normal tone of voice and be friend. I’ve been here 3 years, all i understood from my experience, people living for them self, mostly people has no point in their life,they just do what ever dutch government ask for them to do. They has time for every single thing,no one actually busy ,but they make them self busy ( this is the funniest thing).

    for example ;

    – hey,what are you doing today ?

    – hey, I’m very busy, went to work and now I’m going to have dinner with a friend.

    – I see…

    They do regular things and called been busy…

    From my personel view,without relaying on the news… I think dutch people are supper selfish, mostly greedy (do not forget your wallet if you gonna meet with a dutch person) and extremely unfriendly even tho they are friend it’s probably fake .

    Another thing is I can not believe how racist people are here, I was very surprise by that, even tho they are not %100 dutch.
    I’m a student here ,I don’t have to speak dutch that because I came to study, I do not see any point of learning dutch because i’m not gonna speak dutch in England in Turkey in Italy in France in USA etc, so what the f… i’m gonna do with learning a terrible language ?

    I got blamed many times that because i don’t speak dutch. I really think i should not be the one who has to learn, I really think dutch people has to learn how to communicate and communication is not about talking the same language, communications is also about act. and understanding , to understand some ones feeling you don’t have to speak the same language i suppose if you got a little brain and a heart.

  • Netraam Mats

    I am one big happy smiling Dutchie. I welcome all people in my little shit-weather country. I am open, tolerant and try to make everybody feel at home. I don’t recognize my fellow Dutchies as the ones described here. All my friends are quite like me and most of my friends from abroad have quite good experiences living here. One of my best friends from Athens, Greece finds Amsterdam one of the most warm and welcoming places. Especially compared with Athens. I have lived abroad many years and find that there are good and bad people no matter where you go. My country doesn’t especially stand out for it’s unfriendly locals. Ok, fair enough.. We are no Persians.. Iran tops the list for friendly and hospitable locals. Enjoy Amsterdam!!!

  • mckroket65

    The problem with the Dutch is that they are wonderfully warm friendly and hospitable …. until …. they no longer have a reason to be. That is what is throwing everyone for a loop. We are all used to “unfriendly places” . Name any big metropolis and it will most often be synonymous with rude obnoxious behavior. My very first experience with the Dutch was fantastic. I had just arrived and was sitting at the hotel bar. A Dutch couple came and sat next to me and started up a conversation asking questions smiling etc etc. I thought .. this is great I have been here for 2 hours and already I am making friends. Then they ask me if I can buy them tax free cigarettes. I was like … ummm … thats against the rules sorry. They gave me a disappointing look and just got up and walked away and I was like WTF ? This scenario has played out that exact same way so many times over the years that it is the norm. If the Dutch were consistently unfriendly rude or whatever ? This conversation would not be taking place. The problem is when the Dutch have an ulterior motive for being nice, friendly etc etc and then they resort back to their default mode when they figure out there is nothing to gain. Give me New York or Paris any day where people are dicks … because they are dicks.

  • sarahbrooke

    For me, the word “arrogant” is the one that best describes the average Dutchman, and it’s this arrogance that is the source of many of the traits about which expats complain. It causes barmen,waiters, shop assistants to be downright in-yer-face offensive; it causes people never to doubt themselves, never to apologise and never to actually listen and consider someone else’s point of view (as that might mean you weren’t completely right). It causes people to be fully acquainted with their rights, but have no comprehension whatsoever of the concept of duty. It causes long term expats like me to circulate mainly with other expats and with locals who’ve travelled a lot themselves. Otherwise, it’s just not nice being here…

  • Pat

    Yes, Canada is so friendly to ex-pats….as in all those foreign developers building and buying up condos and houses, yes another type of ex-pats. They’re building or buying up property yet they’re not even Canadians, and have forced prices to balloon and become unaffordable for CANADIANS. Just look at Vancouver for a pure and disastrous example. Canada = loves to bend over to ex-pats and a non-stop 30 year old mass immigration rate. Progress? No sir.

  • Peter Bering

    What a bunch of stupid posts from US expats who will never bother to learn Dutch or try to get beyond their ingratiating and insincere US version of friendliness. Unless one adapts to the honest and straight ways in the NL one will feel a bit out of it.

  • TheIceDog

    “Anything real to say?” He just said it…….see the way it works is that the train moves, not the station.

  • TheIceDog

    Why rip others for expressing their opinions when this entire thread is nothing but people’s opinions? As for your ramblings, most are rather an incoherent mess and you used erudition incorrectly in your example. I do, however, agree with your opinions of the Dutch as I have found them quite friendly in my dealings, especially the women. Your comment with regard to the ‘Celtic Fringe’ was quite insulting to all Celts but being that you are a Brit, and the British cornered the market on racism in their day, it’s sadly to be expected. Cheers.

  • Lazydaisy

    In what way is the use of the phrase “Celtic Fringe” insulting? I would hazard a guess that your only knowledge of the Celtic Fringe is wearing a big green hat on 17th March… Instead of trumpeting your ignorance on here, I suggest you check out what that phrase refers to. As for racism, assuming you are American, no citizen of a country which practiced a form of Apartheid in many states until the 1960s is in any position to criticise the nation which managed to combine the largest Empire in the history of the world, with being the first country to outlaw slavery. In fact, while you are investigating the phrase “Celtic Fringe” check out the origins of the word “apartheid” – one of the few internationally recognised Dutch contributions to language. PS – try paying the men as much as you pay the women.

  • Lazydaisy

    Wow. It took you a while to think of that, and you felt really cool when you were reading and re-reading it, didn’t you?

  • TheIceDog

    Whoa…..someone’s off their meds. There are many Celts who feel commentary by Brits with regard to them, as well as using a phrase such as “Celtic Fringe”, to be insulting. And since we’re discussing history those feelings are due to the fact that the English tried, but failed, to exterminate the Scots and the Irish. As for the “largest Empire” commentary, it must continually sadden you that the “Empire” was defeated by agrarian individuals and militia, resulting in the birth of the United States. Anyone who is English should make no commentary to any other nation with regard to slavery or racism, for the most obvious of reasons which continue to exist to this day. As for your crude remark with regard to the Dutch….there are numerous contributions of their language on an international level. Just because your education and knowledge is limited you should express your ignorance for all to see. PS – do you have something against women?

  • TheIceDog

    Hardly.

  • Melissa

    I know this article is old, but on behalve of some of those rude Dutchies I have to say that alot of people reap what they sow. (Sorry in advance for the misspellings.) Expats are known to be very noisy and act like there are no rules in the Netherlands. Everyone of them I met so far at first think German = Dutch. Most don’t even bother to read into our customs and language. Do you know how many people think Amsterdam is a country, the country is called Holland and that everyone here smokes pot? There are even people asking if child pornography and rape is legal here ffs.

    Expats forget that alot of people go out of their busy ways to give instructions and signs are usually in both Dutch and English. Dutch are also very apologetic and let people walk right over them, by immediately apologizing for something they got nothing to do with (Anne’s comment is a typical Dutch one).

    As a half-Surinam, half Dutchie I think the Dutch are the most spineless people ever. They always get these kind of comments thrown at them because they immediately apologize and want to make everything better. Ofcourse everyone disrespects us. It’s the perfect recipe for getting walked over! We don’t threathen people who give negative comments on our country, most of us stupid people will actually agree with you. Dutch people are still apologizing for slavery even, dafuq?

    The racists are just assholes, but guess what? Those are everywhere.

    Are the Dutch in general:
    Naive? Yes
    Spineless? Yes
    Apologetic? Yes
    Unfriendly? No
    Rude? Sometimes, when you push your luck

    P.S. I agree with the hospital parts tough, our health care is horrible when it comes to warmth and kindness, something which is well needed when you’re ill. Many Dutch living in the south go to a Belgium hospital and I can’t blame them ☺

  • Lydia

    I guess you mistake Dutch sense of humor with rudeness. I had to laugh at looking like a Mexican criminal. No harm meant. But I absolutely do agree that we have become an intolerant, rude and selfish people. Not mentioning exceptions.
    .

  • Willem van Nassau

    If it ain’t Dutch it ain’t much!!!

  • cismo

    This was surprising! As a Turkish person who has spent her time studying at a Dutch university for awhile and visit there whenever it is possible, I would say that Dutch people are really kind and friendly. How is it possible to say Dutch people unfriendly while they are smiling, saying hi to foreigners and trying to do their best when you need help? Most important of all, they are respectful. You would not have difficulty in daily life if you know English (which is a dimension of the survey as mentioned above) and they have been trying their best to look for scientific answers in the issue of integration of minorities. Of course, your opinion about this issue may change according to your understanding of “friendship” and/or your “expectations”. For me, Netherlands is my second home with full of nice and intellectual people.

  • jj

    i`d like your country to dissappear into the sea along with everyone in it.

  • AKA GetHerNumber

    We don’t do CPT

  • Ela N

    Depends among which people you were. You should be careful among foreigners generaly, disregarding the country, advice good also for myself being among Dutch. As a Romanian I lost myself money borrowed to a Romanian “friend”. But people of quality there are not behaving like that at all.
    Yet, Dutch people of “quality” don’t quit on offending me, even by speaking about my skin color, that is so unusual white or looking surprised and making rude comments, because I am well educated and I have achieved many things professionally. I am wondering why this is a surprise for Dutch people. What is missing from their evaluation map???

  • Daniel

    I am an expat myself and I can say only this: I am just sick of your wining….just go back to your home countries and leave us, the dutch and the people who like it here, BE
    Cya

  • DJENTIST .

    After working in the Netherlands for 4 years in the medical care sector, which obviously should be the most empathetic. I can conclude my experience with one sentence;
    The Netherlands is a state of apathy.

  • TheThinker

    It depends on where you are coming from. If you come from the US, Canada, Australia or England, you will think it’s not at all welcoming because your countries are traditionally welcoming. But if you come from France, where most people are unfriendly, Holland is more friendly.

  • TheThinker

    I don’t know where you were, but you will meet A LOT more intelligent people in Boston then you could meet in ALL of Sweden. I lived in Sweden and I can honestly say, they are the most conforming sheepish, stupidest people in the world. They all say the same things, dress the same and think the same thoughts. It’s national programming at it’s best. Americans on the other hand are much friendlier to each other and are not afraid of stepping outside of the box.

  • Tijms

    Yeah, wow… how somebody could respond like this to an article about the Dutch being unfriendly, is beyond me. It’s always the same: the world is out to benefit from the infinite greatness of the Dutch.

    I apologize for people like Marinus. Dutch culture has been eroding towards this spiteful attitude. We will turn around, I am sure, but there is a long road to travel. Unfortunately, the foreigners who could teach us some manners are fleeing the country.

  • Dengel Jersey

    LOL, This is Complete Bull. The Dutch are fantastic all around. Look at where this was written though; “Forbes.” I’m surprised they didn’t say “Monaco” was the best; we all know they wanted to.

  • brimstoned

    Of course Canada is friendly to ex-pats. Our rulers fast-track every potential immigrant possessing any facsimile of credentials, wreaking havoc on many home-grown and educated (at great expense) professionals who are in surplus in many specialties. We have a corporate state in every sense of the word.

  • brimstoned

    Maybe then Dutch life is only suited to the Dutch?

  • Saskia Geerts

    I can only imagine that most of you are in big cities in the Netherlands, any big city will be more difficult. I now live in Canada, but am originally from the Netherlands. The Dutch are easily misunderstood as rude, but we are mostly very straightforward. We do not beat around the bush and for many people not used to this it can come across as “cold” or “rude”. Besides that, a lot of our humor is quite sarcastic, which takes some time to get used to. I have had to adjust these things moving to Canada, and someone moving to the Netherlands would need to adjust all the same. Once you realize that the way the Dutch seem at first has nothing to do with how we are you’ll make friends soon. Easiest way: invite a few colleagues over for dinner or bring some of your traditional food to work to share over lunch. Biggest thing: don’t be arrogant and expect the Dutch to all know English. Most definitely do, but if you come live in the Netherlands at least try and learn the language. Finally: join a sports club, volunteer, or any other social activity if you want to integrate. This is where most Dutch people socialize and build friendships.

  • duh

    If you look at the actual chart this article ‘quotes’, you’ll see that the UK is one of the few countries below the Netherlands :)

    (and total visitors mean shit all when talking about a country 4 or 5 times the size)

  • John

    I love this country.
    – What a pleasure to come home after working day without having need to chat with neigbours. Excellent opprtunity to be in own thoughts.
    – Weather, that is excellent to my comparison with north Norway. Also day length during winter time is amazing if compared there.
    – Landscape is excellent for cycling, no hills or valleys to struggle with.
    – Food can not be bad as I have gained so many kilos.
    – Highways are excellent, and it’s so short distance to anywhere, I can be only in few hours in practice anywhere in the Netherlands or even abroad.
    – Also people are frienly and helpfull, and have a lot of small talk if compared to my homeland.
    – I do not feel cost of living to be expensive on average. Only few things are more expensive than in Norway.
    – People can speak English in practice everywhere
    – One move, and then your scrap adverticement mails don’t find you (naturally you have to separatelly inform your new address to those important partied from whom you want to receive mail).
    – and many other reasons

  • arkan

    I think that for 99 % of the dutch people are racists people, that is my personal thinking and my experiences, on paper they are very tolerant and openminded, gay marrigaes, equal rights for women and men, etc, but in reality and everyday life, in school , work, Streets, shops, they are very racist towards others non white dutch arien people, germanian descent, it comes from their rich colonial time, the golden age, as they cal it, where the dutch people exploited slaves for their own interests, that is what the dutch are famous for, exploiting others for their own benefits, like today the case is in the so called gastarbeiders from the 70 till 2013, where they exploited forreigners for their own interests and benefits, it is in their blood, as a forreigner you are only good enough to work your ass off for them, you do not have anything to say and critize them, and when you are through working for them, you can get the hell out of their country, their so called litlle projectshousing country, I also think that dutch people are very unhappy with their own lifestyle and way of life, your work everyday from 8 till 6, 7 days a week, you have very little money to spend, and you have nothing and that goes till you are 70 years old, and then you get a handout from the state, that is the life in the Netherlands, on paper are very nice and cultural country with rights for everybody, but in reality nothing of that, they are one of the biggest racists in the world, even i would say that it isnt their fault, they are just born with that, genetics, look at all of the germanian people, dutch germans, austrian, all are very arrogant towards the others who aint germanians, that is the Netherlands, on paper nice and good, but in reality, when you life in it like a forreigner, there are some exceptions, but overall not so nice country and mentality !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • mckroket65

    Why all this venom towards the Dutch ? It seems like more than any other ethnic group on this planet ? They are despised. Not because of the aggressive foreign policy of their government ? Not because of football hooligans or anything similar. It is personal. People think they are jerks on a personal level. I see it simply as retribution. An eye for an eye. He who lives by the sword dies by the sword. Judge not lest you be judged. And THAT is what the Dutch do. More than any other group of people ? The Dutch are the most harshly critical and judgmental. The color of your skin ? Your accent ? The way your last name sounds ? What country you come from or even where your grandparents were born seems to be fair game with them. Your clothes, taste in music, whether you put tomato ketchup or mayonnaise on your friet ? They have an OPINION !!! and it will not be very positive. They see it as a virtue of “just being honest” . You may think though … who gives a s*** ? Just don’t be “honest” with them. They will start to quack. It’s funny once you get used to it and if you are good ( like me ) you can use it against them. That is the Dutch weakness. In their ignorance and predictability always making the same comments asking the same questions ? It is easy to come up with a counter that will put them in the place.

  • ulker

    My comment is, that dutch people are often and to many racist people, that i have seen myself that, i am myself from forreign descent, but i was born and raised in netherlands, i do speak dutch and my own language, but dutch people are very pro netherlands minded people, so that everything that the dutch say is like that and it cant be any different, only their saying rules and must be like that, we the other forreign people, those who are born in the netherlands or who came recently to the netherlands, it doesnt matter to dutch people, we are all the same in their mind, just forreigners, people from outside who are just good enough to do their dirty work for little money, and without any saying in their normal lives, because if the netherlands is a nice country , why do they have a lot of rightwing partys in their country, like Centrumdecraten, Volksunie, Lijst pim fortuin, geert wilders, etc, that is the real thinking of the dutch people, they want to return the old days when the dutch people ruled over the world, like surinam, netherland antillen, india, dutch south america, etc, although the netherlands do not have the old supreme power over those colonies, they still dream about it and the long old good time, where they were the rulers over those countries, and that is still the case in their thinking about forreigners, especially the non western people, so the dutch have only one idea, that is a forreigner is someone is is quit doesn.t complain, works his ass off, and in the end goes back like he came to netherlands, and everything he ever earned leafs behind in the netherland, belastingdienst, douane, marrachuessee, etc, because if you look at the netherlands at the borders with other countries, only the dutch are guarding their borders with over exaggeration, every vehicycle is being checked and controled by the dutch, that is your typical dutch friendlyness, it is a coverup of them, and they only want to benefit from someone else and no one can benfit from them, ask forreign workers over the last 50 years, so netherlands isnt a nice country, also dutch people say often i you dont like our country then leave us, but when we work we are welcome for minimumwage, but when we complain then it is a problem for the dutch people, and the dutch people are the biggest complainting nation in the world, look only at their politics, like PVV, Pim Fortuin, Volksunie, and they are also very hypocrit people, because they also only follow the americans in everything like little dogs and puppies, but where where the dutch when the Bosnian enclave of Srebrenica fell and 8000 muslims where killed, those are typical dutch people, only looking at their own interests, they have a lot of speaking about human rights, but only when it is in their benefit, a bunch of hypocrits, are the dutch, from the 15 century to today, only looking for themselfs, and fuck the rest, like they would say, ikke ikke ikke, en de rest kan stikken, that are dutch people, welcome to netherlands, hypocritland.

  • zioprotone

    i finally hear a dutch who speak like a human. and i thank u for this. i met also some kind people here. but the culture unfortunately is based on what u find the most common, so it doesnt make so much of a difference saying “there are some kind people here too”. yes, also some very cold and organized italians. but that doesnt change the general tendency, at least in the short period.
    as for ur society, to me it looks like just really, really sad.
    and extremely false and superficial.
    the worst is that i really expected soemthing different when i came here. anyway.. ur “protectionism” will not last. in the end the strongest cultures always prevail. and it looks to me like u (the Dutch) sadly forgot most of ur culture. just to remember u: the FLemish poliphony (middle age), the Flemish painters (all of them)… Leeuwenhoek. why should u remember only of the trade of the slaves?!?!?! hold on. and… “success”!! :)

  • zioprotone

    noooo….i honestly like the scots…. welll i dont know about, maybe was an impresison

  • zioprotone

    great. i think this often. not seriously….but it s a natural reaction.

  • zioprotone

    agree 100%

  • zioprotone

    i love for writing this. thank u very much

  • Misunderstood Vigilanty

    That’s not a typical dutch respond, it is a typical global I am behind my pc no one can hurt me whatever I say respond.
    A lot of yes-no going on in the whole topic next to a lot of blaming one another for facts that are barely correct. The dutch where the first country to head deep into africa and start slavery right there. And it still happens quietly.
    Dutch rudeness/ directness is about their answers to questions and their ‘honest’ oppinions not about hurting others. There are jerks all around the world it shows when reading this page. Respect is not something you get with snide comments about somes honest/ direct/ rude post wether or not they are dutch.

  • Misunderstood Vigilanty

    Who is rude here now, wishing an entire country to wash away becouse you dislike one of the population’s commentry. I don’t think the dutch are rude, it is those like yourself with a frail ego who get hurt so easy their only defence is trying to be a keybord ninja.

  • Misunderstood Vilgilanty

    The human kin is by itself a flawed design, we need to prove others that we are better and we do this by not being better by pointing out the mistakes of others. This without insight, study or experience.

  • Misunderstood Vigilanty

    Amsterdam is not Holland, Holland is not even The Netherlands, this is correct. Like any other mayor city cannot be compared to the entire country. Like with evry country you intend to move towards you will face difficulties, The Netherlands rate bad on these lists. Yet not a single person here can come up with a good excample and how they would have seen it changed. So far it’s only complain but with hollow remarms. I don’t care for The Netherslands, I don’t care for Europa. But before I start complaining I look inwards and see what I can do to change my petty small world before I barf out a lot of comments.
    One single research does not prove anything but out of personal experiences, yet I still believe it to be true.
    But if we read in any magazine that the world ends in whatever set date we also massivly think this is true. Try the Mayan Chalendar.

  • Misunderstood Vigilanty

    Mauro, you must have been hurt realy badly once in your life. A good thing they have boards like these to fill with arguments that are based on nothing but appearing spite. In fact you outrude any dutchy I know.

  • TheThinker

    There is so much discrimination against foreigners in the labor market. Even if you are American, Canadian, British, Australian, etc. the jobs are reserved for less qualified Dutch only. I think us Western English speakers should turn the tables on the Dutch and not do business with them or let them into OUR countries since Westerners are heavily discriminated against in both Holland and Belgium.

  • TheThinker

    I am very resentful of Dutch immigrating to other Western countries like the US or Canada but even when English speakers from these places move to the Netherlands they will be heavily discriminated against in the job market simply because they are not born and raised in the Netherlands, even if they do speak perfect Dutch. Most Dutch do not speak perfect English, so why do Dutch require “native Dutch” for most of their jobs?

  • TheThinker

    The funny thing about being from Canada or the US is that we take everyone in, but when we go to foreign countries, we will be actively discriminated against.

  • bush

    Bush,
    I know that is everywhere in the world very difficult, concerning finding work and rights, but my thinking is that life in Netherlands is more and more tougher, fewer jobs and chances, and everything is getting more expensive, little salery, high prices, fuel prices, highest in eu, housing prices, shop prices, etc ,only the rich dutch people can afford something, the poor is getting poor, and as a stranger forreigner, it is more harder in Netherlands, maybe 30 years ago it was better, but now very hard life, and most expensive in comparision with other eu countries, look only at road taxes who have to pay, comparison between netherland, Germany,austria, holland most money for road taxes, al money goes to queen and king beatrix, the ordinary dutch people have only small house with garden, and it belongs to the queen of holland, you have nothing, only hypotheek, belastingschulden, incassobureau, discriminatie, onderscheid tussen Nederlanders en buitenlanders, that is holland, i wish i was never born in Netherlands, every country is better than this.

  • Tomq

    I think I’ve come to understand the Dutch much better after over 3 years here, making quite a few dutch and non-dutch friends. Basically, the Dutch mindset is for a very large part a result of extreme individualism:
    – Dutch people care about themselves first and foremost; they will only help you if it costs them nothing.
    – People are “direct” in the sense that they say what they want to say, without caring much for offended feelings.
    – They are “indirect” or “fake” in the sense that they talk A LOT behind each other’s back whenever it wouldn’t be safe to say something openly. They also use this to put other people down so they can look better themselves.
    – As a result of the above, people are very conformist: any small difference will be exploited against you behind your back by those who pretend to be your friends. This also results in a lot of awkward/socially anxious people.
    – “Tolerance” is really just indifference; people are not open to ideas from outsiders (conformism).
    – People will not pro-actively help others. You have to ask. This is particularly annoying when you don’t know you need help, or a certain piece information (e.g. at work.): they’ll let you struggle until you ask the right question.

    On the other hand, this individualism also has advantages:
    – Indifference is sometimes nice.
    – Dutch people are quite rational and pragmatic.
    – Society is very well organized, because an individualistic society needs strong rules to function at all.
    – Dutch people (in my experience) are often quite competent, since they can’t rely on one another; they have to learn to do things by themselves.

    – Dutch people are predictable once you understand all that (they don’t have crazy unexpected moral principles, weird attitudes, they take care of themselves…), which can make them quite cosy to be with.

    And yeah, besides this overall negative picture, the Dutch are still people: they vary wildly from one another, and many are sociable and generous people… It’s just that the *average* Dutch person is really self-centered and unfriendly. Other nationalities have other problems !

  • forKnowledge

    1- How exactly would *you* know if someone who posts a comment does or doesn’t do something which affects one’s “petty own world”? How exactly do you affect yours?
    2- I have absolutely no idea what you’re trying to argue: an odd mix of “renarms” and “Mayan calendar”, neither of which has anything to do with expats in the NL.
    3- If a comment can alert any potential candidate to revise his/her decision to move to the NL, than he/she will be fortunate. I certainly wish I had read such comments before committing to spend several yrs there! But I have more meaningful things to do than to suggest how to “change” the NL, esp given that the Dutch seem to like it the way it is. Been there, moved on, and now – for all I care – it can sink and I wouldn’t give a damn!

  • forKnowledge

    And the jobs “reserved for less qualified Dutch” result in a general level of incompetence which is astonishing…
    In passing, this is how Pakistan, North Korea etc became nuclear powers: A.Q. Khan simply walked out of his URENCO workplace with the plans. So let’s all thank the Dutch for making our World a better place because of their sloppiness!

  • forKnowledge

    “Expats are known to be very noisy” ??? I think you’re confusing expats and young tourists here.
    But I agree with you that most Dutch are spineless, and will avoid confrontation at all costs…

  • Allochtoon

    To John,
    Maybe it is good for you in the Netherlands, because you are from scandinavia, and white and german look, you have less problems with policechecks and controlling your car etc, you can walks freely over the Streets in holland, but if you arent white german outlooke then you have problems in holland, dutch people give you more the benefit of the doubt, it is a plus if you are 100 % white german lookng, from finding work, school, neighbours, streetwalking, shops, living in holland !

  • Jeroen kaaskop

    Jeroen Kaaskop,
    If the expats do not like living in Netherlands, they do not have to stay in my country, Netherlands for the Dutch forever, it is the Dutch or the highway, and old times will return in Netherlands and our colonies will be ours again, own people first, like we say , eigen volk eerst, geen nieuwe expats meer, vol is vol, when others can be rightwinged countrry, why cant we be, long live Netherlands, arische country !

  • Steve

    Wow …. may I remind you that the DUTCH invented SLAVERY? And what about the South-African word “APARTHEID”? So much about human rights. You guys should just shut up and fuck off!

  • The Devils Dog

    In the good times the Dutch like to bathe in this bullshit glory of being liberal and enlightened but the real measure of a people is during the hard times when their true colours are shown.

    The Dutch have been now been shown in their true light these last few hard economic years with xenophobia, racism, their historical core and the famed liberal attitude, which by the way is nothing more than rampant apathy is now on full display.

    After ten years of full time work and a huge financial contribution to government I left under a cloud having experienced the true
    Dutch nature.

    There is reason why nature had large swathes of the country under water and I’ll not shed a tear if nature got its way again.

  • fredflangew

    Hilarious coming from you. I clicked your profile, you do seem to have an opinion on everything. Are you American by any chance?

  • fredflange

    What floodings are you referring to?

  • jeroen

    because they are racist people, that is way, see their history and past, golden age, they think that they own the world !

  • bruce willis

    to dengel jersey, the dutch are fantastic all around in one thing, exploiting others for their benefit, that is fact, look at history, they celebrite sinterklaas, white dutch guy on horse who is ruler and black people under him as his helpers and slaves, and the slavery was ended about 150 years ago, it would be like the german would celebrite their nazi history, with ss parades and other swastika symbols and with their children and enjoy it as a national holiday, that is the fantastic dutch people, it isnt strange , even the word dutch equals deutsch, german country, they do not even have a own culture, it is all stolen from others !

  • hakan

    To daniel,

    you are a bounty, someone who is selling himself to the dutch, stay proud on your own history and nationality, then you are a real person, i think you hate yourself, therefore your comment, i myself am proud on my own background, i also was born and raised in dutschland, but it isnt all that super, you work every day for nothing, for their king and queen who have all, and you have only a small fucking house in the projects , so called blokwoningen with little garden, and that is that, highest tax in eu, expensive, hatred people, you only have the right to work and nothing more, welcome to dutchland, ps , your are a bounty, those are the worst forreigners, landtraitor, be proud on your herritage, dont sell yourself to the dutch, they dont give a ……..!

  • yankie

    this goes on from the 15 century till 2013, using other for themselfs, welcome to holland !

  • mckroket65

    Clicking on my profile ? To what end does that serve ? Typical Dutch. Focus on the messenger not the message. Oh by the way you just won me a beer. I bet someone that with all the angry disappointed frustrated comments on this message board from literally dozens of nationalities ? The Dutch in their knee jerk arrogant ignorance will somehow someway try and get at the Americans. FYI of all the people commenting on here ? The Americans hate you the least. But you would not believe that because you made your mind up 200 years ago and nothing is going to change it facts be damned ! You should just dress up in black face and act like an idiot … it is what you do best.

  • california

    You tell it like it is, I also wont cry for them, let them experience how it is when you do not have a country for any reason and must live like a forreigner in their racist country, the dutch are temporary in the plus about the economic period, but we will see how long this will last, they wont have their economic always on their side, and then it is payback time for their arrogance towards others, no more colonial rule of the dutch !

  • Ganesh

    I have stayed in Holland. Yes, Dutch is hard to learn and may be their culture hard to get used to. But it was never a problem for expats (at least for me). When someone says “expat friendly”, I interpret it as how good the government protecting expats in terms of support to settle and follow their own culture. Also local people welcoming expats. But one weird thing is all the government documents are in Dutch and no option for english atleast with immigration documents.

  • sulejman ghazi

    maybe you have stayed in holland for 2 days in a hotel with 3 stars, and then you have a good experience with dutch people without problems, but if you have lived with the dutch for over 30 years in their little housing projects, and did all their shit work for minimumwage then you would have another opinion about the dutch, ask any gastarbeider in the netherlands from 1960 till 2013, maybe you did have personally a good time in netherlands, you are lucky in that, but my personal thinking isnt all that nice about the dutch, and their way of life !

  • fredflange

    Why don’t you put Latinos and African Americans in prison? After all that is what racist Americans do best.

  • Burkina Faso

    yes, I agree that the Netherlands is a expat unfriendly country, and also a racist country towards dark people like myself, I myself am also born in the Netherlands, and I am now 20 years old, and I have not good words for the Dutch people, I see it every day in my normal life, from going to school, to work, on the streets, every day the Dutch people only look angry to me, and talk behind my back, in the local Dutch shops, supermarkets, also the Dutch police is always looking to me like I am some kind of criminal, but I do have a normal job, it doesn’t pay very much, but al least it is a honest job, and I make my contribution to the Dutch state, and I have also seen that a lot of Dutch people complain about the forreigners in the Netherlands, that forreigners don’t work, but this isn’t all true, because, I know from my own experience, and from my own neighbourhood, where there are a mix of forreign people like myself from affrica, my parents came to the Netherlands, I was born here, and there are a lot also Dutch white people, who don’t work at all, I see them everyday in my building, and they are only screaming, and playing loud music, and yelling, and talking bad words, and they are also racist people, and they are only driving their cars around and doing nothing, but the Dutch are not talking about that, they are only talking bad about us forreigners, I know that there are in every people good and bad people, so also in some forreigner people, you have those who abuse the Dutch system and social help from the state, but there are also a lot of white Dutch people who are abusing the Dutch social helpsystem, but the Dutch people don’t talk about that, and I think that isn’t fair of the Dutch, in every sort of people, you have good and bad, that also applies to the Dutch white people, that is the truth, maybe the Dutch do not like this, but it is my opinion and experience in the Netherlands !

  • forreigner

    to fred lange,

    you complain about americans, but zou dutch people were the first with slavery and the last to abolish it, so much for the dutch and today still your government wont apologize for the big role the dutch played in slavery, but you dutch people will one day get yours, never again dutch colonial rule, you only have yours shitty 35.000 km2 but for how long, the forreigners are in rise, 3.500.000 forreigners 13.000.000 dutch german arien people stand 2013……2050 ???????????????? !!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • wyane

    Yes, the netherlands is a hypocrit country, because the dutch people are only gossiping about other people, with their stupid small houses, very expensive , you do not have any freedom in the netherlands, a lot of traffic, it takes you more then 2 hours to get somewhere, even if it is a small country, it is a shit country and very little tolerance, they also claim that they are fighters for human rights, but if so, why do they then have legal prostitution in amsterdam, where you have a hole entire block that is dedicated to prostitution, where women sell their body for money, and they claim that they have a lot of problems with illegal forreignen woman who are prostituting themselfs, but for 99 % most costumers of them are dutch white people, so far the hypocrit dutch. and they are also the only country in europe where it is legal to buy drugs in stores, coffeeshops, no where in the world is that, a bunch of people are the dutch without moral and human values, the netherlands is one big nasty weird brothel and drugsshops, welcome to netherlands, and also everywhere in the world people work to live, but in netherlands you are only live to work, work, work and have nothing, a bunch of hardcore capatalistic people are the dutch with double moral values !

  • Bart de Groot

    Nederland voor de Nederlanders, the Netherlands for the Dutch, we do not need EU, we are better off, Arian white German Union, Netherlands, Germany, Belgium, Scandanavian Union, we the rich Western German people have to be together, we are the best and richest in the world, they need us more than we them !

  • mckroket65

    News flash. You tried that already. You lost the war. You are a defeated and occupied country. All that was yours ? Is now ours. Including your women. Not that we took your women by force ? It is just that you do not measure up as a man. No one likes whiny little momma’s boy’s. Now be a good little kaaskop and run along.

  • Alija

    what is dutch, small housing with garden, no freedom, people only talking nasty about others, racism, dutch people are only talking about old good days, monarchy who has everything, but the normal dutch people only nothing, everything very expansive, a shit way of life do the dutch have, a dutch person hasn’t got nothing., it is all of the state, belastingdienst, incassobureau, aanmaning, grenscontrole, why are they in the EU, no one controls their borders like the dutch, they must be affraid that someone will steal their little rijtjeswoningen, stupid people dutch !

  • Proud Roma and Sinti

    The netherlands isn’t a nice country at all, even the dutch police admitts that they control everybody who doesn’t look like a dutch person, white arian look, blond hair, blue eyes, if this isn’t racism and discrimination towards others, then I don’t know, see youtube borderchecks netherlands…………http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcuFWP8LuNg, and judge for yourself, so someone is has fled from a country for political or economic reasons, is being threated in the netherlands like some kind of criminal or terrorist, welcome to the netherlands, no place in eu are so much bordercontrols then in netherlands, and they admitt that everybody who has a color skin is being thoroughly controlled by them, this act does a lot have in common with what the germans did in 1933 – 1945, so if you aren’t white arian person, then you will be always checked or are you illegal in netherlands, because i know from own experience that the dutch police is always checking persons from southern europe, turkish look, arabic look, dark people, etc, that is fact, so much dutch non discrimination, on paper yes, in reality no !

  • Osman Ghazi Bayazit

    I do not like dutch people, they are only talking bad to forreigners, allochtonen, and they are only blaming everything to forreigners, but dutch people aint also angels, fact, my parents and family came to holland for 40 years now, and worked very hard and tried to integrate in netherlands society, but ducth people don’t want to be friends and neighbours with us forreigners, and they are only complainting about us, that we are bad people who don’t work everyday, but this isn’t true, all of my family works day and night even in the weekends, and we also pay taxes to netherlands and government and queen beatrix with her good lifestyle, we only have a little small house with garden, and not good and racist neighbours who are only waving with the dutch flag behind their windows and making racist comments to us, because I have a different belief then dutch people, and they hate my kind they say, so netherlands isn’t a nice country, and I do not like dutch people and their thinking about forreigners !

  • suriname

    The dutch say that they are not racist towards others, if so, why is then recently in the town of Arnhem a dark person being rejected by a white electronicsalesshop for a workplace, newest news on the dutch and other people who live in netherlands, isn’t this racism, see also, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ay6sYh4Nnp8 and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2DTgSxahLE, and jugde for yourself, is netherlands a nice place to live for non white germanian people ?

  • The Devils Dog

    The Nederlands is by and large below sea level and to the Dutch credit the reclamation of land was a result of one of the the greatest engineering feats in history. Flooding has occurred in past such as ’53 from North Sea storm surges which is why you see now the massive floor barriers on the Maas.

    Apologies for my last paragraph, I’ve no desire to see any one person hurt and this was just the heated written venting of someone who has had way more than their fill of the dumb arsed locals.

  • The Devils Dog

    NB. I’ve not gone soft on the feckers and I’m still shouting from hell so everything else I said still stands, times 2.

  • fredflange

    No, the Dutch were not the first in the Atlantic slave trade, nor were they the last to abolish it. Simple stating lies doesn’t make them a fact.

  • forreigner

    to fredlange,

    do you agree with me, that at least in numbers we forreigners are in the rise towards you dutch people, numbers 2013, 4.000.000 allochtonen vs 13.000.000 nederlanders, and our number is getting more, so what do think it is going to be in 2050, will the dutch people always be highest in ruling, maybe now, but who knows in the future, and isn’t also true that the netherlands is all based on exploiting others for own benefit slavery, gastarbeidersgeneratie, from the period 1500-2013, and you dutch people only had colonies in those areas where the local people were weaker than you, because in europe you dutch people are nothing, and therefore you went in others parts of the world where people are weaker and less developed in those times and than it was for you dutch people easy to exploit does colonies, , with other words, take someone from your own size, but ypu see this with all of you germanian people, your will to conquer people and lands, from you dutch people, germans, austrians, only the germanian people have the ubermensch mentality, you say that dutch people aren’t racist people, see youtube film, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcuFWP8LuNg ?

  • uskudar

    uskudar says,

    yes, holland is very difficult countrie for forreigners, i was born in holland, amsterdam, and spend my entire life in holland, and i say no matter who you are, holland people are very narrow people, they only want to use others for their interest, i also think that, very expensive country, everything costs a lot of money, lot of rules for nothing, not nice people, they hate forreigners, mostly muslims, and others big groups of immigrants, like turkish, arabic people, etc, they don’t want to socialize with us at all, and they are only complaining and making us black, in media, police, highschool, etc, very hard to find a good job for us, only a few may have a job, a lot of hate of the dutch to us immigrants, fact, also very ant immigrant parties do they have in 2013, pvv, anti immigrant mood, very big cost for living you have in holland, everything costs money, from medicare, monthly premie, very much money, very much poor people also in holland, when i travel to my other homecountry, there everything is cheaper than in holland, benzin, food drinks, cloths, people are nicer in my country, in holland people are always very angry looking to immigrants, not nice people !

  • casablanca

    to fred lange,

    you want to say that your country is a nice country to forreigners, right, see next movie, and tell me if you nederlanders are nice people, i think you all dream about the golden age, is this democratic, only controling forreigners, i think not, and now we all understand the real dutch person and his thinking, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2oDILZdZvA, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcuFWP8LuNg, is this what dutch people see as tolerance ?

  • Peter

    I travel through the Netherlands each year on vacation, and I think the Dutch are the most friendly in Europe. Amsterdam like all big cities around the world, people might be rude at times, but as a whole I have never found the Dutch to be ‘unfriendly’.

  • Erkan

    to Peter,

    are you sure you went to holland and not another country, because the word Dutchland and Deutschland looks the same, and than I can understand that you liked it there maybe you were in another country and are mistaken, and also like a tourist, but to live in holland, i don’t think so, they are the most expensive country in the galaxy, gasprices, housingprices, minimumincome shit, a shortage of houses, very little for renting , and overal way of life !

  • Maya

    When people in this country (and the world itself, in general) start to love people instead of things and start to use things instead of people, then they can expect the light coming upon them. It is all about money and materialism here……they forgot about spiritualism, love, compassion and care for each other. Just have a look at them: zombies of the apocalypse…..focused on ther latest gadgets…hardly seeing anything or anybody around them…rush, rush, rush against the time (which is an illusion) for money….hard to see happy, shiny faces….This society will collapse very soon in its sickness, if the sheeple do not wake up and start connecting with ecah other…..The world is not about EGO and selfies and greed….the world is about love and care. Money can not buy you happiness…..free yourself.

  • EU

    I think that the Dutch people ( 80 % ) are unhappy with themselfs, and then they all react their angryness and depression on the forreigners, that is my thinking, when you look at their lifestyle, you work every day from 6 till 5, very low wage, most of them, there are exceptions of course, high income, but the overall Dutch people are lower income, there is no more middle class, fact, in 2013, everything is very expensive for purchase, and it is only getting worse with the day, on paper they say that they are a very happy nation with richness, but I know from own experience, that this country isn’t a nice country, maybe on paper, the Dutch people are nice and happy and have nothing to complain, I know that everywhere in the world, there is poorness and worse living conditions, but also the Netherlands isn’t all that super like they claim it, you have no freedom for living in houses, only small houses with a little garden, very high rent you must pay, and it goes only up every month, cloths and shoes all very expensive, only a small group of people can afford it, it isn’t fair at all, they are also very like robots, only working every day, not giving a sh………….about some else, for example, you could drop dead besides them, and no one will notice you, that is Netherlands, only thinking in money mode, and like a contest, who has the most money in his of hers life, also the way of life is shit in Netherlands, as a forreigner, you have to be lucky to get a nice and good job, and they only want to talk with you in Dutch speaken, nothing else, they are very fast offendid, and only their way of life is normal, also everything is expensive, gasprices, highest in galaxy, houseprices, even my parkingspace is more bigger then their houses !

  • Brtik

    What a bunch of shit

  • mckroket65

    I agree the Dutch are a bunch of shit.

  • Wilhemus van nassaue ben ik va

    Cheesehead !

  • haha

    Why are we talking about that all Dutch people are unfriendly and ignorant? The same like everyone in America is fat and lazy.

  • mckroket65

    Why are you ignorant ? Because you cannot read the article or any of the comments. The Dutch are under fire and the only people here who are NOT complaining are the Americans but in your knee jerk fashion ? You just HAVE to get the Americans involved. I am sorry you are no longer the master race but try to stay on topic would you please ?

  • espana

    Because dutch people are for 90 % unfriendly and ignorant, and more, and they hate the Americans because they are jealous on America, they all want to be like America, but they will never be, they are nothing without the Americans, just look from the second world war till today, Marshall plan made neverlands what it is today, if not netherlands would be nothing, they can’t function without America, fact, they are like little puppies running behind the Americans, that is their destiny, small ignorant country, once they were a great imperium country, with a lot of colonies everywhere in the world,slvery, arian way of thinking, the dutch germanian people on the highest level of humanity, but now and today they are just a small undersee country, nothing, and they are so proud on their history, based on slavery, exploitation of humans for their own interest, fact, golden age like they call it, it is what you can be proud of, that is the dutch, with their stupid kind of way of life, small houses with little garden of 1 inch with 1 inch, that is neverlands, thank god I don’t have to live my entire life in neverlands !

  • Florida

    what a crap, that we Americans are lazy and fat, without us you wouldn’t even have a country, who saved you from your eastern german brothers when they attacked you in the WOII, and destroyed most of your towns, you couldn’t defend your country for no more than 1 hour, and then you all surrended to them, and it was the Americans who freed you dutch people, and who gave you money to rebuilt your little shit country, and now you dutch people pretend that you yourself did all the work and freeing your country, it was USA baby, so netherlands dream on, you people are nothing without the USA and you know it !

  • Pino

    I totally agree with this survey (unfortunately)…

  • IHT Publishers

    Surprises me. The Dutch have always welcomed me and my family. http://ipmimagazine.com

  • USA

    it is a supercountry the netherlands, and very nice people, openminded, nice, kind always prepared to help someone, as long as you are white, germanlooking, person, without a accent speaking dutch, if you are not this all, then prepare yourself for the VIP treatment in netherlands, from policechecks till getting a nice job and livingplace, nice neighbours, ask any forreign worker over the past 50 years ( gastarbeiders ), and this in netherlands, of course if you are a tourist, maybe then it is another thing, and the netherlands can be a nice country for a visit !

  • Adam Smith

    Hi, I love the Dutch – Yes, they are direct and Yes you need to make an appointment for every social event but once you get passed that they are lovely, warm and super friendly people ( 5 years in Eindhoven ). At the moment I am living in Spain, comments about the warmth of the Spanish, I have never seen. After living here for 7 years I am so happy to say I am moving back to The Netherlands. This time I will be living in Roermond so big shout out to the people of Roermond

  • Yeni Ceri

    I have lived in netherlands for 30 years, living and working and I have no where seen nice dutch hollandse people, and I have lived everywhere in netherlands, where are the nice and kind dutch people, I have heard about the that, but I have never seen them, maybe in dutch fairytales, I ques, !

  • mckroket65

    The Dutch are wonderfully warm and friendly people …. if you have something they want. If however you are just a average poor person who only wants to be treated with dignity and respect ? Well … good luck with that.

  • MintTea

    I have to agree with most of the criticism here. Came over (after living in several European countries) without any knowledge on how hard the locals can be and soon ended up with a completely different impression than the one I expected. Actually found this post after browsing the internet on dutch people, trying to answer myself what is so awfully wrong. Feel a bit relieved that I am not alone reading all of your (quite honest) posts. There are also quite a few professional issues that are terrible here. In a nutshell: if you are a superficial, big mouth, networking person, comfortable with passing the real work to the others – you’ll be fine; otherwise – if you value the work instead of those pointless meetings – it’ll be extremely tough to find the way through on your own and it’s not going to be appreciated after all. That’s my experience so far. I do work in research but what I could hear from the rest of you in different fields does not differ much. So disappointing.

  • CelticBriton

    Most Britons are Celts, you silly sausage.

    Do you *actually* *KNOW* what the phrase “Celtic Fringe” means?

  • cutey smurf

    they dont have a sense of humour,they are rude.
    the extent to which a
    person will find something humorous depends upon a host of variables,
    including geographical location,culture,maturity,education and level of
    intelligence. I can list more than one of the above listed that they do
    not possess.
    Sense of humour normally means being open minded…so excluding open mindedness to sex,porn drugs etc.. the rest is laughable.

    As a South African From cape town,and moving back Im going to do what we do best laugh at ignorant narcissistic beings. so here goes

    HAHAHAHA
    the Dutch should try it sometime. And I mean really try it not that
    fake smiles you all walk around with each day that turn evil as soon you
    spot a none Dutchie. With that said,you can keep this cold miserable
    country, thank god you got grey and gloomy and not beautiful beaches
    with warm weather.

    ENJOY:)

  • Baton Rouge

    I agree with this, because the Dutch people often say that if a forreigner doesn’t speak the Dutch language very good, that he or she can’t find a job in the Netherlands, but this isn’t true at all, because I know from own experience that a lot of forreign friends who also live their entire life in the Netherlands and some are born and raised in the Netherlands, can’t find a nice job, so this is isn’t a nice country for forreigners to live in, maybe for some, but overal not, and also their way of life in the Netherlands is not nice, they only stand before their windows in Netherlands and look at people 24 hours a day and gossip about others, that is their way of life, and that goes till they are 65 years old and then they all go to the retirement home, what a good way of living in the Netherlands !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • ecnu

    This is the best, most balanced, thought-out comment on this article. Couldn’t have put it better myself.

  • Flor

    Wow… I think you’re a bit lost…. or stayed so little in Holland… my god…”latin”… don’t offend me… I’m Latin and grew up in Amsterdam… I arrived when I only was 9 years old and spent 10 years there… Latins are warm, nice and helpful people, and we life foreigners who come and visit our countries… we are friendly, most of the time happy and love to make friends!!I Our houses are always open to welcome friends! While living there I never stopped feeling as a foreigner… and while I was there I learned to speak perfect Dutch… and “netjes”… better than some “real” dutch guys… Duth are RUDE, RACIST, and their sense of humor is so rude!!!!! You can’t just stop by a friend if you have a problem or need to talk to someone… NOOO… first you have to make an appointment and see if your “friends” have the time for you…. I can’t believe when i read they are the most tolerant people…. ABSOLUTELY NOT! Youth crime is unbelievable… I never felt safe there… specially on the trams… people are so unpredictable, agressive… i was always scared …. so many youth gangs on the streets… kids are really rude and “asociaal”! so many sad and scarry memories from that country and their people… what a shame because Amsterdam is one of the most beautiful cities in the world… People should be proud not only of their country but also of their people… they will have to really try to change their behavior… Duth are known for having the most beautiful city.. but also for having the most rude attitude on the planet!

  • flor

    hahaha… that’s what I meant… the houses of latins are always open to welcome friends… without any appointment!!!!

  • flor

    Nothing wrong with appointments… but when you have real friends and in need of something its stupid to call and make an appointment… real friends simply don’t do that!!!!!

  • forKnowledge

    Yes, your description sounds about right! Nobody takes responsability for anything, endless meetings, a lot of talk, very little action; systemic incompetence…It’s not your imagination!

  • forKnowledge

    Try actually *living* there i.e. paying rent, dealing with Administrative stuff, the medical system etc
    Then we’ll talk!
    Amsterdam’s actually nicer than most other areas because – fortunately – there are more foreigners to interact with (cause you sure aren’t gonna make any Dutch friends anytime soon).

  • mckroket65

    I have been living here for 29 years and my point of contention with the Dutch is their sense of arrogance and denial. What they know and can do if really fantastic. But what they do not know and cannot do ? They fake it … terribly … with severe consequences for me. It is not much if it is not Dutch they say. So when they screw up and I call them on it ? lets face they screw up with the best of us ?
    They throw up that wall of arrogance and denial which is only worse if you are one of THEM those pesky buitenlanders so I have to really learn to overcome it all. It is one of the reasons I learned to speak Dutch so fast and so well. If they screw up and jij kan alleen ‘n beetje Nederlands ? Dan heb jij echt pech. I learned to beat them at their own game. But it is all very tiring to me.

  • forKnowledge

    I agree with you, but my solution was a bit different :-) I donated all my Dutch learning books after being horribly fed-up with the entire thing, my family found jobs elsewhere and we’ve left. Not one day too soon! Needless to say, I won’t be going back there for vacations…

    Life’s too short to waste it in a place that makes you feel so unwelcome…After having spent 4 fantastic years in Thailand, learning its language, its culture etc the Dutch experience simply wasn’t worth it!

    Oh, and to the oh so frequent “If it isn’t Dutch, it isn’t much”, my favorite reply remains “And if it is Dutch, it’s even less”. I just love the passive-aggressive way Dutch ppl react to that one! I simply abbhor Nationalism in any way, shape or form…

    Btw, unlike all other places I’ve lived in, I don’t miss ONE single thing about Holland.

    Best of luck to you “outsmarting the natives” :-)

  • Ray

    Sorry? Invented slavery? This is beyond stupdity. I would read some about worldhistory… maybe you should start with something about Egyptian times…

  • Paul

    It is ‘unfriendliest’, not ‘most unfriendliest’; you don’t say ‘meest onvriendelijkst’ in Dutch.

  • Patricia Ramirez

    LOL! Oh no. Point taken.

  • Alto

    I also agree with you, look at this how a forreigner is being welcomed in NL……http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2014/04/immigrants_bullied_into_leavin.php

  • Alto

    the Dutch say that they are proud on their own culture and language, but do they have a own language………..see this and judge for yourself……….http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/29/Niederl%C3%A4ndische_Dialekte.png,
    so what Dutch language do they have, it is all stolen from others !

  • K.

    Hmm I was just looking for tips on cheap vacation options in English and google lead me to this. Since this is a year old I doubt anyone will read this but I have to say, as a Canadian who has lived in Germany and England, and spent the last 8 months living and working in the Netherlands, I’ve found Dutch people pretty lovely. I’ve had a much easier time meeting people and accessing services than I did in England, for sure, and experienced much less of the frank xenophobia (not to mention homophobia, sexism, and ableism) that characterized the year I spent living in the Midlands… My family just visited and I spent the whole time telling them how kind and friendly people have been: like a museum volunteer who drove me and 4 friends to the train station when we got stranded at his museum in the outskirts of The Hague. Anyway, I am sorry people have had such lousy experiences here and I guess I’ve been very lucky, but I did want to stick up for the Dutch a little.

  • K.

    But I should admit that I’m white, and I know my experience might be quite different otherwise. However, as far as I’m aware, that is true everywhere in Europe and increasingly, to my shame, in Canada.

  • Sebastien

    Yes, the Netherlands is the worst country for an international people.
    Many polish,russian, american, spanish, italian ,greece came to find a better life here.but a it is FAKE !!!

    They are not happy,we are not hapy when you discover the Netherlands life .

    Please, avoid to come in the Netherlands, you will find after years of life : a unhappiness life .
    Please My experience is bad, I am french.
    Do not come here in the Netherlands, share the information.
    I have many story to write about why the Netherlands is TOTALLY the worst country of the world for international.

    The DUTCH, you will see a sad life with them.

    A fake life, a system whici destroy the international people mind.

  • Kemal

    The problem with the Dutch people is that they are confronted with the fact that there are 4.000.000 forreigners in their country, in 2014, and that they can’t control those forreigners like they would, therefore there is a lot of anti foreign mood in NL !

  • suzie30

    This is so true, I am married to one. His parents are the most rude people on earth. They gossip behind my back and are always looking for negative things to say about me. I used to think it was just them but over time I realised it is Dutch culture. However you need to give them a taste of their own medicine. Talk back to them and put them in their place. They will not dare speak to you like that again, even if they want to. The problem is they are not used to people telling them to their face that they are rude. You should put them in their place.

  • suzie30

    YES IT IS TRUE. They can be very rude. But all cultures have something negative about it. I lived in 3 countries and there was always something I didn’t like. That is life. Nowhere is perfect. There are many things I don’t even like about my native country.

    Get over it. The grass always seems greener on the other side. You should try to look for the positives.

    E.g

    British people are polite but sometimes they are so polite you can’t tell where you stand with them and that can be very annoying.

    Americans can also be rude. I find them to often have a superiority complex and to not care much for the world outside of america. They can also be quite wasteful and eat too much. I also find them to be too loud. But there are also positives about Americans.

    I have also found many Asians to be extremely racist but they are not aware of it because it is their culture to have racist conversations e.g conversations about skin colour etc. However I have met nice qualities among those same Asians.

    I think no matter what country you live in you will find nice people and mean people. You have to pick your friends carefully everywhere in this life.

  • Rose Marylove

    I never believed in love spells or magic until i met this spell caster once when i went to Africa in may this year on a business summit. I meant a man who’s name is DR ABIZA he is really powerful and could help cast spells to bring back one’s gone, lost, misbehaving lover and magic money spell or spell for a good job or luck spell .I’m now happy & a living testimony because the man i had wanted to marry left me 3 weeks before our wedding and my life was upside down all because our relationship has been on for four years. I really loved him, but his family was against us and he had no good paying job. So when i met this spell caster, i told him what happened and explained the situation of things to him. At first i was undecided, skeptical and doubtful, but i just gave it a try. And in 8 days when i returned to UK, my boyfriend (now husband) called me by himself and came to me apologizing that everything had been settled with his mom and family and that he also got a new job interview. I didn’t believe it because the spell caster only asked for my name and my boy friends name and all i wanted him to do. Well we are happily married now and we are expecting our little kid, and my husband also got the new job and our lives became much better. His email is {[email protected]} you can also contact him for help.

    Vera Williams.

  • Anon

    I have been living in Groningen for 5 years, and have found integration almost impossible. I have dutch friends who are really genuine and loving people but I would say, on the whole the locals see an expat as something to take advantage of. As an expat you are likely to be screwed by your employer and people who have tried to gain your trust. If it will benefit the locals to know a foreigner then you have a chance to build a network and gain meaningful work but watch your back.

    Being in NL is not all negative but it’s far more difficult than other countries I’ve lived in, (the US, UK, Portugal). There are lots of great things about Holland like the high wages and relative low cost of living. Government subsidies for healthcare, unemployment and housing are great! …but you need to read dutch to understand how they work.

    Sorry Dutchies but you have to admit that in general you’re opinionated and judgemental. I would also add that greedy and egotistical personalities are not as frowned upon here as in the UK. All-in-all a daunting place to blend in!

    Dutch culture is querky and unique which is why I like it. There are loads of national holidays and the weather is slightly better than the UK as is the infrastructure and crime rate. There don’t seem to be any poor people in NL.

    Tips if you’re going to take the plunge:

    Learn the language as quickly as possible! You will be openly discriminated against for being an outsider even if you have a good grasp on the language, but without it you are considered a tourist.

    Be carefull to think about what somebody wants from you before making a friendship. Hold on tightly to that wallet!

    Dutchies like to negatively gossip more than any other culture I have come across (more than a few). Try not to disclose personal information to friends of friends or people in your network.

    Business in NL should never be considered complete until you have the money in your bank account. Never do any work up front without a contract that you have had checked by a trusted local.

    Dutch people look down on drug takers. Don’t admit to smoking weed or taking drugs.

    Don’t try to interact with your neighbours. You’re wasting your time.

    Stay away from the catering sector. They call it HORECA.

    Business meetings will not end without a solution. Be prepared to stick it out.

    Beware of the tax rebates and subsidies. The authorities can refuse you on the grounds that you are not dutch after you received the transfer. Save it. They might want it back!

    Finally. Be respectful. Don’t criticise dutch culture, however crazy/bigoted/nationalistic it seems. My favourite joke is to tell my dutch friends that they can do what they want here. It’s their swamp! That’s about as far as I can push it 😉

    Good luck if you choose to move to NL. It’ll be an adventure for sure.

  • Nienke

    I am Dutch and I live in Scotland. Scots are very friendly and less selfish than the Dutch.

  • Lio

    I agree 100%. They’re the most unsympathetic, unfriendly and arrogant people I know. I’ve lived for many years in the Netherlands, so I can know.

  • SRB

    From a tolerant and open country to a xenophobic country that put itselves back in the closet in just a couple of years. Wow Netherlands…you’ve outdone yourself this time. Respect! 😛

  • chibi

    Most of those so called “foreigners” are 3rd and 4th generations immigrants so technically just as Dutch as the next child born and raised there. The Netherlands just has this nasty habit of deciding based on skin color whether someone if “foreign” or not.

  • Monique Wilson Gaarenstroom

    I am dutch myself, and I live in the states. Every time I go back, I end up saying something to a person about their rudeness. Dutch people DO gossip behind your back, and make fun of people all the time. I can stand to be there for about 2 weeks to see my family, and then I am out of there!!!

  • Ameridutchman2014

    Indeed, I was raised in the Netherlands for 30 years, emigrated in 2000 been back a few times and indeed even for dutch expats wanting to return it is the most unfriendly country out there. I am have seen, heard and felt it myself and even asked the people working for the ” Stadhuis ” if it was just my imagination, they apologized and admitted to be so. As an expat you are on your own, you do not get any help anywhere and if they pretend to help you have to go trough so much red tape and all goes with snail mail, mind you wake up we live in the 21st century! it is not funny, it is sad (understatement)
    The Netherlands is no longer what it used to be. IMHO, aka in my humble opinion. I have read that more dutch are leaving the Netherlands every day because of the anger about what the people in Government are getting away with, corruption, lies and so on. It is covered up by smoke screens and more.
    I would stay away, only for a vacation maybe but that is it. Even Dutch that want to come “home” as they say do not get any help, you are just on your own but people that go back to their own country of origin within Europe get money and pensions. It used to have so many ‘social’ pluses, not any more. You just talk with the older generation and you will hear what is going on for decades, none of it is good. I still have family in the Netherlands and it saddens me to hear how bad things have become…. Expats, do your home work and get the facts before anything else! I know you will think twice before you want to go live there. What once was is no longer! Everything is getting broken down and it only gets worse every year.

  • Wiola

    I live in Netherlands for 7 years now, I was 13 when i moved here with my mom and I’m polish. And knowing how polish people are seen in many countries I thought I’d add that to make my point.
    I graduated from middleschool here and I’m about to graduate highschool soon. It has never been friendly for me here.
    I barely made any friends cause you just can’t make your way through to those people. They are not friendly at all, and not all of them but you hardly find nice open people that won’t give you that fake feeling.
    From the first moment I came here I knew that all I wanted to do is get out of here. It never felt like home. Now finally that I’m about to finish highschool I aim to leave to Spain, where people are warm, friendly and have their hearts open.

  • Sabine

    I am Dutch and yes as a foreigner I wouldnt want to live there. We think we are the best in everything yes. French are arrogant who don’t speak english (stupid), Germans are nazi’s, Spanish are lazy, Belgians are stupid with their weird G, England drinks tea and has many jersey shore people, Americans think Europe is a country.. These are just common Dutch thoughts.. Yes we are rude but it is also some kind of weird humor which no foreigner would ever understand. A typical conversation would be like: Person 1: Hey can I have a sip of your drink? Person 2: No. Person 1: Bitch. Person 2: Love you too. This is kind of stupid Dutch humor and we are exteremly sarcastic because we just want to always show we are smarter. Another typical dutch conversation: Person 1: Have you been to school today? Person 2: No that is why my bike is outside. (Person went to school with their bike and that is why it is outside). You ‘win’ if you make an even more sarcastic comment in response. The one who is smartest wins and that is how we talk and only Dutch people understand that. We are also extremely honest because in our point of view why would you otherwise ask for an opinion if you are going to ly anyway? We are not so good at understanding indirect communication and that is why we are so straight forward. And well yes maybe we are selfish but another Dutch thought is: If everyone thinks about him/herself, then everyone is thought about.. We do not like to rely on other people because relying on someone in Dutch means favors haha.. Yes we are greedy. Everything needs to be extremely equal which is very annoying.

    Sorry if im too direct haha excuse me im dutch

  • John

    It sounds like a compliment to me. They applaud you for achieving so much while coming from a country where they believe it’s very hard to accomplish much… maybe you are just looking for things to be offended about?

  • Jack

    I grew up In Suriname and came to the Netherlands to study and find a job. I speak perfect Dutch yet am constantly bombarded with racist remarks because the Dutch are under the impression that all Surinamese people are Black (I’m white) and don’t speak a lick of Dutch.. I’m facing deportation because I can’t find a job even though i am more than capable of contributing to society.

  • john

    The Dutch did not invent slavery, though that did not stop them from benefiting from it immensely. as for referring to the apartheid regime and blaming the Dutch because its a dutch loanword; that’s akin to blaming the french for the high number of divorce rates in the world the word ‘divorce’ is a french loanword.

  • captainc

    I think it is true to almost all European countries, but the more developed it gets the worser it becomes.

  • captainc

    I think it is the same everywhere. the gap is betwen the rich and the poor.

  • captainc

    I am speechless, that means once you are out of the country, you are alloctons.

  • lolaGets

    I know this thread is a few years old, but I want to give all of the expats here a big, fat kiss on the lips. Reading your comments is helping me get through an extremely rough period (okay, it’s lasted a few years, actually) of trying to “assimilate” into Dutch society. It’s just not working. I’m a fish out of water. I’m married to a Dutchman who tells me that living here is just like being in England. (WHAT??) He has tons of Dutch friends (I can’t stand any or them), they’re rude, bossy, nosy and give their unwanted opinions about everything. I’ve lived here six years and I haven’t made one friend. Six years. I’m at the point where I don’t even want to leave the house.

    I especially appreciate how others have articulated everything I’ve been experiencing here. I don’t feel as alone, or like I’ve gone completely mad on my own. Thank you for this.

  • Kevin

    It’s not a Dutch “loanword”, the Afrikaner people primarily descend from 18th Century Dutch colonists. The word ‘apartheid’ comes from the Afrikaans language, which is a daughter language of Dutch. The Afrikaner people are actually more genetically pure Dutch than the modern day Dutch themselves (but we wont get into that discussion). Oh, and I must add it was the British who invented and introduced “Apartheid”, not just in South Africa but also in Palestine and Northern Ireland.

  • Paul Wilson

    I’m curious about the nationality of the expats answering the survey. The English (from Britain, America, Canada, etc…) are well know for going to foreign countries and considering the locals rude for not following English social convention, while themselves being very unpleasant.

  • Mojo

    Judging on what I could notice around living in NL – Canadians, Americans, Germans and English might as well survive or be less sensitive actually… probably that bit of ‘western mind’ helps…

    If we need to ‘nationalize’ the issue of surviving – the other cultures seem to take it harder in my opinion (people from other parts of Europe, S. America, not to mention Africa or Asia). Bear on mind that nationalities that don’t have English as a mother tongue language will be posting here less. Anyway – expat complaints tend to match with those from Dutch citizen that are not treated as equally as ‘genuine’ Dutch. Indeed there is an issue on the treatment of foreigners. It has been extremely difficult and sad working here so far, and we are divided so much (dutch/non-dutch) that it is sad to see every day… And it’s not about prosaic things. Many of foreign employees (great valuable workforce by the way, brilliant people) cannot afford losing the job since the situation in their countries is not really bright. Some are involved in the project that they cannot abandon it till it is finished, some just don’t have much choice to improvise on the job market nowadays. I personally have tried to integrate upon arrival, but it all turned out to be such a traumatic experience and ended up befrending with expats coming from all over the world. All of that in a working environment with so-called ‘knowledge migrants’ with, say, roughly half domestic and the other half from everywhere you can imagine. I just did not get this feeling that complaints are ‘English thing’.

    For the record – I come from the country in south-east Europe. Cheers and thanks for sharing the experiences – it does help.

  • Jagatheesan Chandrasekharan

    20) Klassiek Nederlands

    VRIENDELIJK GEEF correcte vertaling OM DIT IN UW KLASSIEKE MOEDERTAAL en alle andere talen je kent en te publiceren.

    Stuur een kopie naar
    awakenmedia.prabandhak @ gmail.com
    chandrasekhara.tipitaka @ gmail.com
    Bezoek:
    http://sarvajan.ambedkar.org
    Tipitaka
    De Pali Canon
    © 2005
    Zie ook Sutta Index; Vertalingen door Translator

    De
    Tipitaka (Pali ti, “drie,” + pitaka, “manden”), of Pali canon, is de
    verzameling van primaire taal Pali teksten die de leerstellige fundament
    van Theravada boeddhisme vormen. De Tipitaka en de paracanonical Pali teksten (commentaren, kronieken,
    etc.) vormen samen het volledige lichaam van de klassieke Theravada
    teksten.

    De
    Pali canon is een enorme hoeveelheid literatuur: in het Engels
    vertaling van de teksten op tot duizenden afgedrukte pagina’s. De meeste (maar niet alle) van de Canon is al gepubliceerd in het Engels door de jaren heen. Hoewel slechts een klein deel van deze teksten zijn beschikbaar op
    deze website, kan deze collectie een goede plek om te beginnen.

    De drie divisies van de Tipitaka zijn:

    Vinaya Pitaka
    De
    verzameling van teksten over de gedragsregels voor de dagelijkse gang
    van zaken binnen de sangha – de gemeenschap van monniken (gewijde
    monniken) en bhikkhunis (gewijde nonnen). Veel meer dan alleen een lijst van regels, de Vinaya Pitaka ook de
    verhalen achter de oorsprong van elke regel, die een gedetailleerd
    verslag van de Boeddha’s oplossing voor de vraag hoe gemeentelijke
    harmonie binnen een grote en diverse spirituele gemeenschap te behouden.
    Sutta Pitaka
    De
    collectie van suttas of discoursen, toegeschreven aan de Boeddha en een
    paar van zijn naaste discipelen, met alle centrale leerstellingen van
    het Theravada boeddhisme. (Meer dan duizend sutta vertalingen zijn beschikbaar op deze website.) De suttas zijn verdeeld over vijf Nikayas (collecties):

    Digha Nikaya – de “lange collectie”
    Majjhima Nikaya – de “midden-length collectie”
    Samyutta Nikaya – de “gegroepeerd collectie”
    Anguttara Nikaya – de “verdere ingecalculeerd collectie”
    Khuddaka Nikaya – de “collectie van kleine teksten”:
    Khuddakapatha
    Dhammapada
    Udana
    Itivuttaka
    Sutta Nipata
    Vimanavatthu
    Petavatthu
    Theragatha
    Therigatha
    Jataka
    Niddesa
    Patisambhidamagga
    Apadana
    Buddhavamsa
    Cariyapitaka
    Nettippakarana (alleen opgenomen in de Birmese editie van de Tipitaka)
    Petakopadesa (“”)
    Milindapañha (“”)

    Abhidhamma Pitaka
    De collectie van teksten waarin de onderliggende leerstellige
    principes gepresenteerd in de Sutta Pitaka worden herwerkt en
    gereorganiseerd in een systematisch raamwerk dat kan worden toegepast op
    een onderzoek naar de aard van de geest en materie.

    Om verder te lezen

    Waar vind ik een exemplaar van het volledige Pali canon (Tipitaka)? (Veelgestelde vragen)
    Voorbij de Tipitaka: A Field Guide to Post-canonieke Pali Literatuur
    Pali Language Study Aids biedt links die nuttig Pali studenten van elk niveau kunnen zijn.
    Handbook of Pali Literatuur, door Somapala Jayawardhana (Colombo: Karunaratne & Sons, Ltd, 1994). Een gids, in woordenboek vorm, door de Pali canon, met
    gedetailleerde beschrijvingen van de belangrijkste bezienswaardigheden
    in de Canon.
    Een analyse van de Pali Canon, Russell Webb, ed.. (Kandy: Buddhist Publication Society, 1975). Een onmisbaar “roadmap” en de hoofdlijnen van de Pali canon. Bevat een uitstekende index notering suttas bij naam.
    Gids voor Tipitaka, U Ko Lay, ed.. (Delhi: Sri Satguru Publications, 1990). Een andere uitstekende schets van de Tipitaka, dat een samenvatting van vele belangrijke suttas.
    Boeddhistische Dictionary, door Nyanatiloka Mahathera (Kandy: Buddhist Publication Society, 1980). Een klassieke handboek van belangrijke termen en begrippen in Theravada boeddhisme.

  • Jagatheesan Chandrasekharan

    20) Classical Dutch

    KINDLY RENDER CORRECT TRANSLATION TO THIS IN YOUR CLASSICAL MOTHER TONGUE AND ALL THE OTHER LANGUAGES YOU KNOW AND PUBLISH.

    Please send a copy to
    [email protected]
    [email protected]
    Visit:
    http://sarvajan.ambedkar.org
    Tipitaka
    The Pali Canon
    © 2005
    See also Sutta Index; Translations by Translator

    The Tipitaka (Pali ti, “three,” + pitaka, “baskets”), or Pali canon, is the collection of primary Pali language texts which form the doctrinal foundation of Theravada Buddhism. The Tipitaka and the paracanonical Pali texts (commentaries, chronicles, etc.) together constitute the complete body of classical Theravada texts.

    The Pali canon is a vast body of literature: in English translation the texts add up to thousands of printed pages. Most (but not all) of the Canon has already been published in English over the years. Although only a small fraction of these texts are available on this website, this collection can be a good place to start.

    The three divisions of the Tipitaka are:

    Vinaya Pitaka
    The collection of texts concerning the rules of conduct governing the daily affairs within the Sangha — the community of bhikkhus (ordained monks) and bhikkhunis (ordained nuns). Far more than merely a list of rules, the Vinaya Pitaka also includes the stories behind the origin of each rule, providing a detailed account of the Buddha’s solution to the question of how to maintain communal harmony within a large and diverse spiritual community.
    Sutta Pitaka
    The collection of suttas, or discourses, attributed to the Buddha and a few of his closest disciples, containing all the central teachings of Theravada Buddhism. (More than one thousand sutta translations are available on this website.) The suttas are divided among five nikayas (collections):

    Digha Nikaya — the “long collection”
    Majjhima Nikaya — the “middle-length collection”
    Samyutta Nikaya — the “grouped collection”
    Anguttara Nikaya — the “further-factored collection”
    Khuddaka Nikaya — the “collection of little texts”:
    Khuddakapatha
    Dhammapada
    Udana
    Itivuttaka
    Sutta Nipata
    Vimanavatthu
    Petavatthu
    Theragatha
    Therigatha
    Jataka
    Niddesa
    Patisambhidamagga
    Apadana
    Buddhavamsa
    Cariyapitaka
    Nettippakarana (included only in the Burmese edition of the Tipitaka)
    Petakopadesa ( ” ” )
    Milindapañha ( ” ” )

    Abhidhamma Pitaka
    The collection of texts in which the underlying doctrinal principles presented in the Sutta Pitaka are reworked and reorganized into a systematic framework that can be applied to an investigation into the nature of mind and matter.

    For further reading

    Where can I find a copy of the complete Pali canon (Tipitaka)? (Frequently Asked Question)
    Beyond the Tipitaka: A Field Guide to Post-canonical Pali Literature
    Pali Language Study Aids offers links that may be useful to Pali students of every level.
    Handbook of Pali Literature, by Somapala Jayawardhana (Colombo: Karunaratne & Sons, Ltd., 1994). A guide, in dictionary form, through the Pali canon, with detailed descriptions of the major landmarks in the Canon.
    An Analysis of the Pali Canon, Russell Webb, ed. (Kandy: Buddhist Publication Society, 1975). An indispensable “roadmap” and outline of the Pali canon. Contains an excellent index listing suttas by name.
    Guide to Tipitaka, U Ko Lay, ed. (Delhi: Sri Satguru Publications, 1990). Another excellent outline of the Tipitaka, containing summaries of many important suttas.
    Buddhist Dictionary, by Nyanatiloka Mahathera (Kandy: Buddhist Publication Society, 1980). A classic handbook of important terms and concepts in Theravada Buddhism.

  • Dr. Carl H.D. Steinmetz

    As an immigrant from Indonesia living in the Netherlands and a former
    Expat in Canada I do have the feeling that Dutch native people might be
    colour-blind, and inherited a long history of colonizing Suriname, the
    Antilles and Indonesia.

    Colonizing means becoming an offender,
    witness and victim of suppression, genocide (see Professor Abram de
    Swaan on his new book ‘The Killing Compartments: On genocidal regimes
    and their perpetrators’) combined with friendships with the indigenous
    people in the former colonies. It is a known result that trauma experiences (as victims, witnesses and offenders) are transferred to the next generations.

    Colour-blind is the result of knowledge gaps of the effects of ‘white’ power.

  • vince71
  • Guest
  • fredflange

    “I am french.”
    France, where 25% of the people voted FN.
    France, a country that actually has a burqa ban.
    France, where hundreds of thousands demonstrated against gay marriage.
    France, a country that extradited Roma.

  • fredflange

    “I don’t miss ONE single thing about Holland.”
    The Dutch don’t miss you either. The country is a better place without you. In fact the world would be a better place without you in it.

  • zhandra8829

    “ease of learning the local language”, no wonder why the English speaking countries ranked highest…. this kind of research just makes me laugh…. I am Mexican and come from a very ‘warm’ country, when I moved houses in Mexico, not even ONE neighbor came to welcome me. When we bought our house in Holland (I and my Italian husband), ALL of the neighbors in our street came to welcome us and were happy to meet us. I still need to meet all those xenophobes in Holland!

  • zhandra8829

    I think parents-in-law are generally rude in any country…

  • Olisipo

    I’ve grown up in the Netherlands and I agree with this. Dutch culture is abusive, racist and a little psychopathic.

    The “direct” -attitude is just an excuse for not caring at all what your actions/words do to someone else. It’s a place where people live as demons, yet demand the rewards of saints.

    There are a FEW Dutch with a healthy human attitude. But they are rare and hard to find.

    Most people here are either stupid and/or demon possessed!

  • kjherstin

    As an Australian and European citizen, there seems be be a misconception in the Netherlands, that you are free to work here. Many pamphlets state this, as it should be the norm in the European community but it is not followed by the Dutch. If you want to work in the Netherlands, only volunteer work. Foreigners don’t deserve to get paid, even most Dutch themselves have to work for free, only difference they get money from the government or wherever, every month as for me, I get nothing! I have to live off other people and beg. It’s great living in the Netherlands!

  • kjherstin

    It’s sad because it’s true

  • kjherstin

    Dutch are nice but try living in their country for a few years. Their niceness is accompanied with indifference. You don’t want to fall ill here. I had to drive myself to the hospital with a burst appendix. I had food poisoning and my fiancees parents did not drive me home or offer me something after I threw up, not even a glass of water. I drove myself home, they had dinner even after they called me at 8pm and I was throwing up during the call. I asked for them to buy me a probiotic yogurt and they didn’t even bother. So finally after they had dinner and came home. I drove myself to Albert Heijn to go and bought some yogurts. They really gave me a sense of relief.

    In sum, Dutch are nice but most are indifferent and cruel.

  • Adam Riley

    My dad is American, I´m Mexican (my mom is mexican), and I don´t know if I should be offended by your comment (well, the dutch guy comment), tell me, how does a “mexican criminal” looks like? I´m afraid of people having this view of us, I can tell you, we´re not poor, we don´t have moustaches, wear sombreros and ride donkeys like in the wild west, also, the thing about criminality in Mexico is a huge myth… While drug lords are active, they only operate in certain zones and 95% of the time they only get involved with other gang members…
    Damn, it sucks that people think we´re criminals because of the bad press we get… Also, I was talking to this dutch guy on a forum about a football match between Mexico and the Netherlands and I was congratulating him for the win and he acted like a total d***, he was like: “Mexicans are sore losers, you´re inferior, you suck, etc”, I thought it was only that guy, but then I started noticing more of those comments, and now I realize they have fame for being rude.

  • TLLRS

    Then fuck off. Good riddance. Maybe nobody in the Netherlands wants to befriend you because you are an total asshole?

  • Soze

    Ahahah, true

  • Al
  • Wendy Woo

    Despite having felt isolated during my 4 years in Japan before coming to the Netherlands, I find it not so much unfriendly as plain depressing. Despite having lived in many very different countries, all with their own attributes and short falls, I find the barriers to employment, social integration, and obtaining a visa ridiculously hard. Although I am seen as one of them due to my appearance, my partner is not Caucasian so we are forced to live apart.

  • Sera21

    Well I grew up in South Africa( with German parents) and now live in the Netherlands and I feel way more acccepted here then I ever did in South Africa.

  • Jagatheesan Chandrasekharan

    20) Classical Dutch

    FREE ONLINE E-Nālanda Research and Practice UNIVERSITY

    Please render correct translation in your own mother tongue and all other languages and propagate for your and others happiness

    The Setting in Motion of the Wheel of Dhamma is observed by all the Awakened Nations including Mahabodhi, Bengaluru.

    This Pra Buddha Baharth’s hatred rulers never observed Dhammacakkapavattana, though the Ashoka symbol is with this wheel.

    Please watch:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oys6qShGVg
    Dhammacakkappavattana sutta ธรรมจักรกัปวัตนสูตร ( Eng,Pali,Thai )4:58 mins

    Published on May 29, 2013

    The Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta (Pali; Sansrit: Dharmacakra Pravartana Sūtra; English: The Setting in Motion of the Wheel of Dharma) is a Buddhist text that is considered to be a record of the first teaching given by the Buddha after he attained enlightenment. The main topic of this sutta is the Four Noble Truths, which are the central teachings of Buddhism that provide a unifying theme, or conceptual framework, for all of Buddhist thought. This sutta also introduces the Buddhist concepts of the middle way, impermanence, and dependent origination.
    [ Credit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhammaca… ]

    Full Pali&Eng text:
    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1m

    ธัมมจักกัปปวัตนสูตร ป็นปฐมเทศนา เทศนากัณฑ์แรก ที่พระพุทธเจ้าทรงแสดงแก่พระปัญจวัคคีย์ เมื่อพระผู้มีพระภาคตรัสธัมมจักกัปปวัตนสู­ตรนี้อยู่ ดวงตาเห็นธรรม ปราศจากธุลีปราศจากมลทิน ก็ได้เกิดขึ้นแก่ท่านพระโกณฑัญญะนับเป็นพร­ะสงฆ์ สาวกองค์แรกในพระพุทธศาสนา วันนั้นเป็นวันเพ็ญกลางเดือนอาสาฬหะหรือเด­ือน 8 เป็นวันที่พระรัตนตรัยครบบริบูรณ์ บังเกิดขึ้นในโลกเป็นครั้งแรก คือมี พระพุทธ พระธรรม พระสงฆ์ครบบริบูรณ์

    ธัมมจักกัปปวัตนสูตร มีเนื้อหาแสดงถึงการปฏิเสธส่วนที่สุดสองอย­่าง และเสนอแนวทางดำเนินชีวิตโดยสายกลางอันเป็­นแนวทางใหม่ให้มนุษย์ มีเนื้อหาแสดงถึงขั้นตอนและแนวทางในการปฏิ­บัติเพื่อบรรลุถึงอริยสัจทั้ง 4 คืออริยมรรคมีองค์ 8 โดยเริ่มจากทำความเห็นให้ถูกทางสายกลางก่อ­น เพื่อดำเนินตามขั้นตอนการปฏิบัติรู้เพื่อล­ะทุกข์ทั้งปวง เพื่อความดับทุกข์ อันได้แก่นิพพาน ซึ่งเป็นจุดมุ่งหมายสูงสุดของพระพุทธศาสนา

    บทสวดพร้อมคำแปลฉบับเต็ม: http://www.fungdham.com/pray/pray27.html

    “Vijay Prakash-Sanyuttanikaye arya-Sacchani”, sound recording

    Administered by: Times Music India

    http://www.buddha-vacana.org/sutta/samyutta/maha/sn56-011.html

    Tree >> Sutta Piṭaka >> Saṃyutta Nikāya >> Sacca Saṃyutta
    SN 56.11 (S v 420)
    Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
    — Setting in Motion of the Wheel of Dhamma —
    [Dhamma·cakka·pavattana ]

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    Dhammacakkapavattana Sutta

    1) Tipitaka is of 3 baskets.1)Basket of Discipline (Vinaya),2) of Discourses (Sutta) & 3) of Ultimate Doctrine (Abhidhamma) Pitakas.

    2) one can realize how perception arises first, and knowledge after, and how the arising of knowledge comes from the arising of perception.

    3) Dhammacakkapavattana Sutta -Two extremes should not be adopted by one who has gone forth from the home life.

    1 The devotion to hedonism towards kāma, which is inferior, vulgar. 2 devotion to self-mortification, which is dukkha, deprived of benefit.

    4) This ariya aṭṭhaṅgika magga, sammā·diṭṭhi sammā·saṅkappa sammā·vācā sammā·kammanta sammā·ājīva sammā·vāyāma sammā·sati sammā·samādhi.

    This, is majjhima paṭipada to which the Tathāgata has awaken, produces vision ñāṇa, & leads to appeasement, to abhiñña, sambodhi, Nibbāna.

    5) This is dukkha ariya·sacca: jāti is dukkha, jarā is dukkha (sickness is dukkha) maraṇa is dukkha, association with what is disliked is dukkha,

    Dissociation from what is liked is dukkha, not to get what one wants is dukkha; in short, the five upādāna’k’khandhas are dukkha.

    6) This is dukkha·samudaya ariya·sacca: taṇhā leading to rebirth, connected with desire & enjoyment, finding delight here or there.

    That is to say: kāma-taṇhā, bhava-taṇhā and vibhava-taṇhā.

    7) This is the dukkha·nirodha ariya·sacca: the complete virāga, nirodha, abandoning, forsaking, emancipation and freedom from that very taṇhā.

    8) This is the dukkha·nirodha·gāminī paṭipada ariya·sacca: just this ariya aṭṭhaṅgika magga.

    That is to say: sammā·diṭṭhi, sammā·saṅkappa, sammā·vācā sammā·kammanta, sammā·ājīva, sammā·vāyāma, sammā·sati and sammā·samādhi.

    9) ‘Now, this dukkha ariyasacca is to be completely known’: in me, in regard to things unheard before, the eye, ñāṇa,paññā, vijjā, light arose.

    ‘Now, this dukkha·samudaya ariyasacca has been abandoned’: in me,in regard to things unheard before, the eye,ñāṇa, paññā, vijjā, light arose

    10) ‘Now, this dukkha·nirodha ariyasacca has been experienced’: in me, in regard to things unheard before,the eye,ñāṇa,paññā,vijjā,light arose

    11) ‘Now, this dukkha·nirodha·gāminī paṭipadā ariyasacca has been developed’: in me.

    In regard to things unheard before, the eye arose, the ñāṇa arose, the paññā arose, the vijjā arose, the light arose.

    12) And so long, bhikkhus, as my yathā·bhūtaṃ knowledge and vision of these four ariyasaccas in these twelve ways by triads was not quite pure.

    I did not claim in the loka with its devas, Māras, Brahmās, samaṇas and brahmins, in this generation with its devas and humans.

    To have fully awakened to the supreme sammā·sambodhi.

    13) But when, bhikkhus, my yathā·bhūtaṃ knowledge & vision of these four ariyasaccas in these twelve ways by triads was quite pure, I claimed

    in the loka with its devas, Māras, Brahmās, samaṇas & brahmins, in this generation with its devas & humans, to have fully awakened.To the

    Supreme sammā·sambodhi & the knowledge & vision arose in me: my vimutti is unshakeable, this is my last jāti, now there is no further bhava

    14) This is what the Bhagavā said. Delighted, the group of five bhikkhus approved of the Bhagavā’s words.

    And while this exposition was being spoken, there arose in āyasmā Koṇḍañña the Dhamma eye which is free from passion and stainless:

    ‘ all that has the nature of samudaya has the nature of nirodha’.

    15) And when the Bhagavā had set in motion the Wheel of Dhamma, the devas of the earth proclaimed aloud:

    ‘At Varanasi, in the Deer Grove at Isipatana, the Bhagavā has set in motion the supreme Wheel of Dhamma,

    which cannot be stopped by samaṇas or brahmins,devas,Māras,Brahmā or anyone in the world.’

    16) Having heard the cry of the devas of the earth, the Cātumahārājika devas proclaimed aloud:

    ‘At Varanasi, in the Deer Grove at Isipatana, the Bhagavā has set in motion the supreme Wheel of Dhamma,

    which cannot be stopped by samaṇas or brahmins,devas,Māras,Brahmā or anyone in the world.’

    17) Having heard the cry of the Cātumahārājika devas, the Tāvatiṃsa devas proclaimed aloud:

    ‘At Varanasi, in the Deer Grove at Isipatana, the Bhagavā has set in motion the supreme Wheel of Dhamma,

    which cannot be stopped by samaṇas or brahmins,devas,Māras,Brahmā or anyone in the world.’

    18) Having heard the cry of the Tāvatiṃsa devas, the Yāma devas proclaimed aloud:

    ‘At Varanasi, in the Deer Grove at Isipatana, the Bhagavā has set in motion the supreme Wheel of Dhamma,

    which cannot be stopped by samaṇas or brahmins,devas,Māras,Brahmā or anyone in the world.’

    19) Having heard the cry of the Yāma devas, the Tusitā devas proclaimed aloud:

    ‘At Varanasi, in the Deer Grove at Isipatana, the Bhagavā has set in motion the supreme Wheel of Dhamma,

    which cannot be stopped by samaṇas or brahmins,devas,Māras,Brahmā or anyone in the world.’

    20) Having heard the cry of the Tusitā devas, the Nimmānarati devas proclaimed aloud:

    ‘At Varanasi, in the Deer Grove at Isipatana, the Bhagavā has set in motion the supreme Wheel of Dhamma,

    which cannot be stopped by samaṇas or brahmins,devas,Māras,Brahmā or anyone in the world.’

    21) Having heard the cry of the Nimmānarati devas, the Paranimmitavasavatti devas proclaimed aloud:

    ‘At Varanasi, in the Deer Grove at Isipatana, the Bhagavā has set in motion the supreme Wheel of Dhamma,

    which cannot be stopped by samaṇas or brahmins,devas,Māras,Brahmā or anyone in the world.’

    22) Having heard the cry of the Paranimmitavasavatti devas, the brahmakāyika devas proclaimed aloud:

    ‘At Varanasi, in the Deer Grove at Isipatana, the Bhagavā has set in motion the supreme Wheel of Dhamma,

    which cannot be stopped by samaṇas or brahmins,devas,Māras,Brahmā or anyone in the world.’

    23) Thus in that moment, in that instant, the cry diffused up to Brahma·loka.

    And this ten thousandfold world system shook, quaked, and trembled,

    and a great, boundless radiance appeared in the world, surpassing the effulgence of the devas

    24) Then the Bhagavā uttered this udāna: ‘Koṇḍañña really understood! Koṇḍañña really understood!’

    And that is how āyasmā Koṇḍañña acquired the name ‘Aññāsi·Koṇḍañña’.

  • Jagatheesan Chandrasekharan

    20) Klassiek Nederlands

    GRATIS ONLINE E-Nalanda Onderzoek en Praktijk UNIVERSITEIT

    Gelieve maken correcte vertaling in je eigen moedertaal en alle andere talen en uit te dragen voor uw en anderen geluk

    De instelling in Motion van de Wiel van Dhamma wordt waargenomen door alle Awakened Naties waaronder Mahabodhi, Bengaluru.

    Dit Pra Boeddha Baharth haat heersers nooit waargenomen Dhammacakkapavattana, hoewel de Ashoka symbool is met het wiel.

    Please watch:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oys6qShGVg
    Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta ธรรมจักร กัป วัต น สูตร (Eng, Pali, Thais) 4:58 minuten

    Gepubliceerd op 29 mei 2013

    De Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta (Pali; Sansrit: Dharmacakra Pravartana Sūtra; Engels: Het in gang zetten van het Wiel van Dharma) is een boeddhistische tekst die wordt beschouwd als een verslag van de eerste onderricht gegeven door de Boeddha nadat hij verlichting bereikte zijn. Het belangrijkste onderwerp van deze sutta is de Vier Edele Waarheden, die de centrale leerstellingen van het boeddhisme, dat een rode draad, of conceptueel kader voor alle boeddhistische reflectie te bieden zijn. Deze Sutta introduceert ook de boeddhistische concepten van de middenweg, vergankelijkheid, en afhankelijke oorsprong.
    [Credit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhammaca …]

    Volledige Pali & Eng tekst:
    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1m

    ธั ม ​​ม จัก กัป ปวัตน สูตร ป็ น ปฐมเทศนา เทศนา กัณฑ์ แรก ที่พระพุทธเจ้าทรงแสดงแก่พระปัญจวัคคีย์ เมื่อพระผู้มีพระภาคตรัสธัมมจักกัปปวัตนสู­ตรนี้อยู่ ดวงตา เห็น ธรรม ปราศจาก ธุลี ปราศจาก มลทิน ก็ได้เกิดขึ้นแก่ท่านพระโกณฑัญญะนับเป็นพร­ะสงฆ์ สาวก องค์ แรก ใน พระพุทธ ศาสนา วันนั้นเป็นวันเพ็ญกลางเดือนอาสาฬหะหรือเด­ือน 8 เป็น วัน ที่ พระ รัตนตรัย ครบ บริบูรณ์ บังเกิด ขึ้น ใน โลก เป็น ครั้ง แรก คือ มี พระพุทธ พระ ธรรม พระ สงฆ์ ครบ บริบูรณ์

    ธั ม ​​ม จัก กัป ปวัตน สูตร มีเนื้อหาแสดงถึงการปฏิเสธส่วนที่สุดสองอย­่าง และเสนอแนวทางดำเนินชีวิตโดยสายกลางอันเป็­นแนวทางใหม่ให้มนุษย์ มีเนื้อหาแสดงถึงขั้นตอนและแนวทางในการปฏิ­บัติเพื่อบรรลุถึงอริยสัจทั้ง 4 คือ อริยมรรค มี องค์ 8 โดยเริ่มจากทำความเห็นให้ถูกทางสายกลางก่อ­น เพื่อดำเนินตามขั้นตอนการปฏิบัติรู้เพื่อล­ะทุกข์ทั้งปวง เพื่อ ความ ดับ ทุกข์ อัน ได้แก่ นิพพาน ซึ่งเป็นจุดมุ่งหมายสูงสุดของพระพุทธศาสนา

    บท สวด พร้อม คำ แปล ฉบับ เต็ม: http://www.fungdham.com/pray/pray27.html

    “Vijay Prakash-Sanyuttanikaye arya-Sacchani”, geluidsopname

    Beheerd door: Times Music India

    http://www.buddha-vacana.org/sutta/samyutta/maha/sn56-011.html

    Boom >> Sutta Pitaka >> Samyutta nikaya >> Sacca Samyutta
    SN 56.11 (S v 420)
    Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
    – Omgeving in Motion van de Wiel van Dhamma –
    [Dhamma · Cakka · pavattana]

    Facebook, skype, Twitter vriendelijke

    Dhammacakkapavattana Sutta

    1) Tipitaka is van 3 baskets.1) Mand van Discipline (Vinaya), 2) of Discourses (Sutta) en 3) van Ultimate Doctrine (Abhidhamma) pitakas.

    2) kan realiseren hoe waarneming ontstaat eerste en na kennis, hoe het ontstaan ​​van kennis komt uit het ontstaan ​​van waarneming.

    3) Dhammacakkapavattana Sutta-Twee uitersten moet niet door iemand die vooruit is gegaan van het leven thuis worden aangenomen.

    1 De devotie tot hedonisme richting kāma, die inferieur is, vulgair. 2 toewijding aan zelfkastijding, die is dukkha, beroofd van uitkering.

    4) Deze ariya aṭṭhaṅgika magga, sammā · ditthi sammā · saṅkappa sammā · Vaca sammā · kammanta sammā · ājīva sammā · Vayama sammā · sati sammā · samādhi.

    Dit is Majjhima paṭipada waarop de Tathagata heeft doen ontwaken, produceert visie Nana, en leidt tot verzoening, tot abhiñña, sambodhi, Nibbana.

    5) Dit is dukkha ariya · Sacca: Jati is dukkha, Jara is dukkha (ziekte is dukkha) Marana is dukkha, associatie met wat hekel is dukkha,

    Dissociatie van wat is geliefd is dukkha, niet krijgen wat men wil, is dukkha; kortom, de vijf upādāna’k’khandhas zijn dukkha.

    6) Dit is dukkha · samudaya ariya · Sacca: Tanha leidt tot wedergeboorte, verbonden met verlangen en genot, het vinden van verrukking hier of daar.

    Dat wil zeggen: Kama-Tanha, bhava-Tanha en vibhâva-Tanha.

    7) Dit is het dukkha · nirodha ariya · Sacca: de volledige viraga, nirodha, verlaten, verzaken, emancipatie en vrijheid van die zeer Tanha.

    8) Dit is het dukkha · nirodha · Gamini paṭipada ariya · Sacca: alleen deze ariya aṭṭhaṅgika magga.

    Dat wil zeggen: sammā · ditthi, sammā · saṅkappa, sammā · Vaca sammā · kammanta, sammā · ājīva, sammā · Vayama, sammā · sati en sammā · samādhi.

    9) “Nu, dit dukkha ariyasacca is volledig bekend ‘: in mij, met betrekking tot de dingen ongehoord voor, het oog, nana, Panna, vijjā, licht ontstond.

    ‘Nu, dit dukkha · samudaya ariyasacca is verlaten’: in mij, met betrekking tot de dingen ongehoord voor, het oog, nana, Panna, vijjā, licht ontstond

    10) “Nu, dit dukkha · nirodha ariyasacca is ervaren ‘: in mij, met betrekking tot de dingen ongehoord voor, het oog, nana, Panna, vijjā, licht ontstond

    11) “Nu, dit dukkha · nirodha · Gamini paṭipadā ariyasacca is ontwikkeld ‘: in mij.

    Met betrekking tot de dingen ongehoord voor, het oog ontstaan​​, Nana ontstond, de Panna ontstond, de vijjā ontstond, het licht is ontstaan.

    12) En zo lang, monniken, zoals mijn yathā · bhūtaṃ kennis en visie van deze vier ariyasaccas in deze twaalf manieren triades was niet helemaal zuiver.

    Ik beweerde niet in de loka met zijn deva, mara’s, Brahma, samanas en brahmanen, in deze generatie met zijn deva’s en mensen.

    Om volledig ontwaakt voor de opperste sammā · sambodhi.

    13) Maar toen, monniken, mijn yathā · bhūtaṃ kennis en visie van deze vier ariyasaccas in deze twaalf manieren triades was heel zuiver, beweerde ik

    in de loka met zijn deva’s, mara’s, Brahma, samanas & brahmanen, in deze generatie met zijn deva’s en de mens, volledig hebben awakened.To de

    Supreme sammā · sambodhi en de kennis en visie in mij opkwam: mijn vimutti is onwrikbaar, dit is mijn laatste Jati, nu is er geen verdere bhava

    14) Dit is wat de Bhagava gezegd. Opgetogen, de groep van vijf monniken goedgekeurd van de Bhagava woorden.

    En terwijl deze expositie werd gesproken, ontstond er in āyasmā Kondanna de Dhamma oog die vrij is van passie en roestvrij:

    “Dat de aard van samudaya heeft het karakter van Nirodha.

    15) En als de Bhagava in beweging had gezet het Wiel van Dhamma, de deva’s van de aarde verkondigd hardop:

    ‘At Varanasi, in de Deer Grove at Isipatana, de Bhagava in beweging heeft gezet de opperste Wiel van Dhamma,

    die niet kan worden gestopt door samanas of brahmanen, deva, mara’s, Brahmā of iedereen in de wereld. ‘

    16) Gehoord de roep van de deva’s van de aarde, de Cātumahārājika devas aangekondigde hardop:

    ‘At Varanasi, in de Deer Grove at Isipatana, de Bhagava in beweging heeft gezet de opperste Wiel van Dhamma,

    die niet kan worden gestopt door samanas of brahmanen, deva, mara’s, Brahmā of iedereen in de wereld. ‘

    17) Gehoord de roep van de Cātumahārājika devas, de Tavatimsa devas aangekondigde hardop:

    ‘At Varanasi, in de Deer Grove at Isipatana, de Bhagava in beweging heeft gezet de opperste Wiel van Dhamma,

    die niet kan worden gestopt door samanas of brahmanen, deva, mara’s, Brahmā of iedereen in de wereld. ‘

    18) Gehoord de roep van de Tavatimsa devas, de Yama devas aangekondigde hardop:

    ‘At Varanasi, in de Deer Grove at Isipatana, de Bhagava in beweging heeft gezet de opperste Wiel van Dhamma,

    die niet kan worden gestopt door samanas of brahmanen, deva, mara’s, Brahmā of iedereen in de wereld. ‘

    19) Gehoord de roep van de Yama devas, de Tusita devas aangekondigde hardop:

    ‘At Varanasi, in de Deer Grove at Isipatana, de Bhagava in beweging heeft gezet de opperste Wiel van Dhamma,

    die niet kan worden gestopt door samanas of brahmanen, deva, mara’s, Brahmā of iedereen in de wereld. ‘

    20) Gehoord de roep van de Tusita devas, de Nimmānarati devas aangekondigde hardop:

    ‘At Varanasi, in de Deer Grove at Isipatana, de Bhagava in beweging heeft gezet de opperste Wiel van Dhamma,

    die niet kan worden gestopt door samanas of brahmanen, deva, mara’s, Brahmā of iedereen in de wereld. ‘

    21) Gehoord de roep van de Nimmānarati devas, de Paranimmitavasavatti devas aangekondigde hardop:

    ‘At Varanasi, in de Deer Grove at Isipatana, de Bhagava in beweging heeft gezet de opperste Wiel van Dhamma,

    die niet kan worden gestopt door samanas of brahmanen, deva, mara’s, Brahmā of iedereen in de wereld. ‘

    22) Gehoord de roep van de Paranimmitavasavatti devas, de brahmakāyika devas aangekondigde hardop:

    ‘At Varanasi, in de Deer Grove at Isipatana, de Bhagava in beweging heeft gezet de opperste Wiel van Dhamma,

    die niet kan worden gestopt door samanas of brahmanen, deva, mara’s, Brahmā of iedereen in de wereld. ‘

    23) Dus op dat moment, op dat moment, de roep diffuus tot Brahma · loka.

    En deze tien duizendvoudig wereldsysteem schudde, beefde en sidderde,

    en een grote, grenzeloze uitstraling verscheen in de wereld, overtreft de gloed van de deva

    24) Toen sprak de Bhagava dit Udana: ‘Kondanna echt begrepen! Kondanna echt begrepen! ‘

    En dat is hoe āyasmā Kondanna verwierf de naam ‘Aññāsi · Kondanna’.

  • Nite0wls

    I think the ‘directness’ of us Dutch is often mistaken for rudeness.
    We don’t like to skate around an issue but rather take the bull by the horns and deal with it then polishing it up and hide it in bows and ribbons and fluffy nothing less meaning words. I have that problem quite often living in Britain where they are extremely sensitive not to step on toes. So yes I’m often classed as rude. Nevertheless you can have a good laugh with me by times and they like my dry sense of humor.

  • Eso

    I also want to say that is they are unfriendly, because I was raised and born in NL, and they are always asking me where am I from original, but I was born and raised here, and they are always asking e about my name and my family history, and I am sick of this all the time, because I also don’t ask the Dutch people where they are from, typical Dutch, and they want to know everything from a forreigner, so they can use this information against you !

  • annascottpiano

    No, it is more that people don’t like you. Considering that you are a piece of filth, I can’t blame them.

  • annascottpiano

    Since you are from England, then you must be accustomed to some rude buggers. After all the Brits are despised everywhere in the world.

  • annascottpiano

    Drop dead. Piece of filth.

  • annascottpiano

    You know nothing. You are a piece of filth. Why don’t you kill yourself. It would make the world a better place.

  • annascottpiano

    Don’t you have something useful to do. Like putting African Americans in jail. Because that is what Americans do best. Racist scum.

  • annascottpiano

    If you want to see a bunch of shit, then why don’t you look at the inside of your trousers.

  • Al is an Asshole

    How nice. Anecdotal evidence. Anything to say about what those French hypocrites did.

  • user

    If you ask for help, Dutch people will be very friendly. And they will go out of their way to help you. They really like to help people, so if you need anything, be sure to ask!!
    But it might be hard to make friends since for many Dutch people, it’s not: “the more the merrier”. They have their social life devided up. Friends from work, neighbours, family, a close friend and so on. So very often when they go do something, they won’t ask you along.
    It also depends where in Holland you are. In the bigger cities there will be more people who are new to living there, so more chances to make friends there.
    About if the Dutch are tolerant, I think it just looks like they are. They perceive to be tolerant, but it’s more, if you don’t bother them, then they don’t care what you do and you can lead your own life. They like diverstiy and the fact that everyone can be themselves. But you can only be so, up to the point that it doesn’t bother them.

  • Mark

    Which human right is violated by legalizing prostitution of drug use?

  • Mark

    What does any of this have to do with the article? The Dutch seem pretty well aware of being liberated by the USA (in fact, it’s all the other countries that helped that should get more credit). Veterans visit schools, for example. What is your comment referring to?

  • Motafied

    Nationality got NOTHING to do with a how a person can be. I mean EACH country got good and bad people. So this whole discussion is bullshit.

  • Omar, M

    I am a Moroccan intellectual, married to a Dutch woman. I have lived in the Netherlands for nine (9) years, and I don’t have a single Dutch friend! I have friends everywhere else, though!
    I also think that Dutch people are ‘direct’ only when it suits their purpose. If YOU are, they don’t accept it. At work as in life, if you are an average expat with a weak personality: you are ‘say -stupid. If you are excellent and driven: who the hell you think you are! Go figure. Who could I be? No matter who I am, I can’t be, but I remain me, which is not helping.

  • brimstoned

    A comment that extreme cannot possibly be accurate … I call bullshit.

  • Julie

    Wow. Really. Wow. I just read all of your comments here and it is unlike I’ve ever seen before. You all made this into a hate page. You all say some really mean stuff for people claiming that the Dutch are so horrible. It doesn’t sound so convincing to say how heartless and mean the Dutch are if you here on the internet are being exactly that. Mean.
    I agree that the Dutch culture isn’t particularly warm, especially now that I live abroad and have experienced differently. It is a different culture that some may not appreciate, hell, I don’t. But that doesn’t make the Dutch bad people. Really, take a good hard look at yourselves. You’re doing exactly what you’re accusing the Dutch of.

  • giannitalia

    “There is not good and no bad in a cultural behaviour of people from a nation” . Stated that, people like anne who define herself a loner, are difficult to be liked from others. Dutch behaviour when on their own abroad is a completely different story than when the same dutch is in it’s own habitat at home. The old idea of the dutch open and tolerant is in fact old. I do not have real dutch friends, i live here more than 25 years. Mostly my friends are from other lands or with foreign roots. Too bad? Too true!

  • The Dutch guy

    As a Dutch working amon mostly expats, I have found mostly non-Dutch people bashing the Dutch as an unhospitable bunch. Unfortunately I have not found anyone willing to actually willing to learn Dutch or willing to show any interest in the Dutch culture or way of thinking. I am not surprised that that the Dutch seem unhospitable and unfriendly to those people that come to the Netherlands, enjoy the freedom, the safety and comfortable way of living, but not willing to adapt or make any effort to even try to understand the way of thinking that created the country as it is, or even willing tol try to learn the language of their hosts. Criticism and showing their hostile attitude on the other hand is not a problem. Keep complaining the Dutch are closed and a bunch of assholes! That will open up their minds, and make some Dutch friends ;)! I have many non-Dutch friends, but those that don’t appreciate me living in my own country are not part of them… think about it: would you be friends with someone who only critices your way of living?

  • Holland

    If the US wouldn’t have invaded us, we just wou;d have been speaking German, trains would have run in time and we would not need to support the US in every war they create. It would have been a much more peaceful world most probably.

  • a.Merican

    ah, you mean fat, with diabetis and full of debts? Thank you or even better: thank god!

  • Considered racist

    because speaking native Dutch will actually help you in your function of speaking Dutch to other Dutch people?

  • calus

    10 years in NL, true what is written about difficulties in merging into the dutch society, but still feeling way more relaxed when I land in Amsterdam, then when I land in my hometown, Italy. Simply let’s help the dutchies getting more open! Come on!

  • http://IntimacySpecialist.wix.com/love-life-coach Tamar Nicole Gass

    I am so happy to see I am not the only one who feels this way LMAO

  • Waffles

    I’m sorry for dutch people but that’s quite true.

    Although I’ve met very nice dutch people in these five years I’ve been living in the Netherlands, I can’t help but feel their kindness is shallow or even fake and I just can’t see myself fitting in this rather cold society.

  • Alejandro

    i just think,it depends a lot where you live in Holland, living in Eindhoven seems to be ok if you speak dutch to most of dutch people,i have a couple of dutch friends includind my ex girlfriend and my ex mother in law and her boyfriend.I think they just are raised to be polite to the rest of the people and not to give more extras going further than the comfort zone of them, they wil tell you i dont need more new friends cause i already have some, i just learned no to try to be more that what i am,i get to the point in a conversation and not speak about my personal life because i realize they sometimes do not care (only to the good dutch friends), anyway most of them they are not happy when they ask you how long do you live in Holland?and you response like a 5 years, they expect you already should be able to speak dutch, sometimes they wont tell you but they will comment with other people.,anyway its about to take the good things that this country has to offer.

  • Gene

    You say that might take time??? After 6 years of living in NL still I don’t have any friends there and …..my childrens same. Totaly unfriendly country. Still 1 week 2 weeks to go out of NL.

  • Gene

    Is true the Dutch don’t allow their rude, obnoxious citizens to leave the country. Ive met them outside NL and after in NL (same persons) and different behaviour. Outside they are very friendly becouse they don’t have options but when they are back ….or live in they country ….different story.

  • Sebastien

    French mee too, but I have some international experience I agree with you…

    but

    France, where 25% of the people voted FN.
    but the 25 % are people against the system ( immigration, fiscal law !!! )

    France, a country that actually has a burqa ban.

    ( they scare for nothing, burga is a problem until the tourism scare people )

    France, where hundreds of thousands demonstrated against gay marriage.

    it is normal !!

    France, a country that extradited Roma.

    correct.

  • ireneg

    I did’t read all the comments, but could understand that the common idea is “Dutch are awful and Dutch society is very bad”. Probably I was just really lucky but most of the Dutch people I know are really nice. I am also an expat, have been living here already for 10 years, I am married with a Dutch guy which is one of the nicest person I know (otherwise I wouldn’t have married him, I guess :-)), and my in-laws are also incredibly sweet. So, maybe I’ve been just lucky. That was not even my point. I just wanted to say that I know also a lot of other expats, and indeed almost all of them have something to complain about the Dutch. But I have observed them in the time and I have to say that none of those expats ever really approached the Dutch with a real openness and will to understand/being understood. It’s maybe true that Dutch are not there with open arms, but the expats I know made zero efforts to make themselves sympathetic. In fact they always complain about something and I have to say that if someone would do the same with Italy… i don’t know if I would be keen to listen to them for longer than 15 minutes. I don’t want to say here is perfect. I don’t really love the weather, food could be better, I have sometimes problem with doctors which I find sometimes too superficial and I find bikers sometimes a little too rude and it’s true that society is hard. But I am here and I try to cope. It took me a lot of time to understand the Dutch, but I made a real serious effort, and that payed back. I didn’t see the same happening for some of my other international friends, and I ask myself if other people who commented here tried with a real effort.

  • Heidi

    The Dutch tucked us in their country beautifully for 9 years (Canadian/Brazilian family), but one of my early experiences was as you describe… I was exasperated and “blew up” with a difficult shopowner, and boom! They were as sweet as pie after that. : ) I LOVED living in Holland, and felt healthy, free and alive there.

  • Heidi

    And my children would go back in a heartbeat.

  • https://www.facebook.com/titana.drive Ivana

    My personal experience is completely opposite! I live in Holland almost a year. Since beginning I find people very friendly and willing to help. At work and privately too. They help me with language, bureaucracy stuff…life in general. Remember that neighbors even gift me flowers as welcome. Same feelings has my son (6.5). Regardless language barrier he runs to school everyday.
    The only one unfriendly thing in Holland is lack of sun :) …. or I am the most unfriendly person at universe haha

  • Pierre

    I do agree with you, the service in restaurants here is the worse I never experimented in my life, and I do have a lot of stories. Strange that in Antwerpen whos in the Flemish part of Belgium, I went to several “basic” restaurant with a high quality service level, that’s something probably not very dutch apparently…. For the rest I really appreciate my expat life in NL, the quality of life is good, I have the chance to live in De Pijp in Amsterdam, and I feel at home. True that the dutchs are not really closer with internationals people, maybe they just don t care …. BTW we brought a lot of revenue to this country and definitely deserve to be part of the society.

  • Maria

    Hay de todo, no creo que Holanda se merezca ser uno de los países que encabezan esa lista ni mucho menos. Mi experiencia personal ha sido exquisita y aquí facilitan mucho las cosas a los extranjeros. La crisis ha causado estragos en todo el mundo y en Holanda no iba a ser menos por eso quizás se ayude menos, pero para incluso para los nativos del país. Por otro lado los extranjero nos hemos aprovechado demasiado de la confianza de los holandeses y demasiado educados son porque en España, mi país de origen, nos hubiesen dado con la punta del pié en el trasero. Conclusión; no es cierto y esta es mi segunda emigración a los Países Bajos.

  • grimborg

    I’m very surprised to see this! I moved to the Netherlands a few years ago and I’ve always felt welcome here. People were always helpful and friendly to me, even at the beginning when I didn’t speak any Dutch, and I’ve made a few great friends here.

  • KaMay

    you really do need to actually live here for more than 2 years before you can begin to understand these comments – being a well travelled sociable person I would never have believed them before…it really is quite astounding.

  • Pingback: Life in The Netherlands | Culture Catalog |()

  • Hardtothinkofagoodusername

    I understand entirely what you mean. I am an English house-husband, with a Dutch wife, living in an area of The Netherlands where English is not widely spoken. This has helped me learn the language more quickly. I have to say my neighbours are some of the most friendly people I have ever known and will always offer help if it is needed. Some of the rudest people I have met over here have been other ex-pats, who often made me cringe with embarrassment.

  • David Alvarez

    Anne, I think you are mixing rudeness with straightforward…Dutch are rude and hypocrite and call that ‘been straightforward’. They will open their heart and let you in as far as they can feel superior and feel they can dictate you how to do thing, Dutch have a big-brother complex that turns into something very ugly in the moment the expat becomes more or just refuses the Dutch ‘support’. They think they do all good and make fun of any different culture, seeing them as less in place of just different, they do that in holland and where ever they go on holidays

  • ids

    You must be American. The Dutch just not go all “american crazy” for a cold, a flu or some food poisoning. In the States they may act like you are going to die, but the Dutch just take a paracetamol/aspirine and take a nights sleep. And for the burst appendix, you will be in no state to drive at all and need an ambulance. So it couldn’t be that bad if you could still drive yourself. Call it indifference, the Dutch call it “down to earth”

  • kjherstin

    I am not American. I am Australian. Food poisoning is taken very seriously in civilized countries as it should in all countries. The burst appendix was really bad; the doctors couldn’t believe I withstood the pain for so long and said I could have died. I stayed hospital for a week due to infection and observation. I was in a lot of pain and would cry out in pain each time I had to brake on the way to the emergency room.

    Dutch are indifferent! They care more about themselves, their vacations and there stupid pets!

    I used to think that Dutch were nice, nice as Australians but I was so wrong! Dutch are cruel, selfish and racists!

  • Daniel

    Hakan, cool down! As I said, you are free to move to the place that you feel that you belong to. Cheers!

  • Fiona Peters

    The Dutch are by far the most arrogant, self centred and rude people I have ever come across. They thrive on making as much noise as possible, speak (shout) as if they gargle with bleach and have absolutely no respect for anyone else. Also have a mania for fireworks.

  • Fiona Peters

    Dutch doctors are really indifferent to your suffering. My partner developed an ear infection and was not given any antibiotics which would have solved the problem. Instead she had to have her ear drum pierced and a grommet inserted. Three years on she still suffers. Not what you expect after paying 100 euros each month for compulsory health insurance. I broke my shoulder 2 years ago and was given paracetamol !!!

  • hack

    You will see…

  • Nima

    Don’t mix this with being racist or anything near that, but yes Dutch people can be shallow and a bit cold in general. It’s very difficult to really feel welcome and get mixed in a Dutch community, especially when the community does not have any experience with international people. Don’t get me wrong, Dutch people are very friendly in general. I must say I kind of agree with this.

    I’m Dutch myself, but I wasn’t born in here, so I can tell exactly how it feels.

  • https://www.facebook.com/titana.drive Ivana

    Hm, getting curious what new I can see

  • Fiona Peters

    Horrible country with horrible people. They thrive on noise, show no respect to any other living being and have no idea what a queue is. They push and shove to be first on planes, trains and buses, often leaving elderly people to stand, while they sit there with an arrogant smirk on their face. They cannot talk but feel that their conversation should be heard by all around them. Oh and they are also racist. Being English, I have been told a few times to **** off back to my own country. All in all a real hole to live in.

  • Markus

    I found this article very straight to the point. I’m a young professional, who’s already lived in 4 countries, including the USA. Originally I am from Estonia, did my bachelor studies at London School of Economics and my master at Berkeley (US). I do have 5 years of working experience in a very international environment. I came here just because of my boyfriend who is Dutch, but don’t know for how long I will survive. There are subjective and objective reasons for that.

    Objective:
    1) Weather. Yes, it is depressing, but we can’t change it. Also, coming originally from Estonia myself I can’t complain much. We have all that rain too, well, less. And cold winters. However, Dutch autumns and especially winters are very dark and depressing. No snow, it just rains all the time.
    2) Food. This problem can be solved, we are free to buy products we like. However, I find difficult to find healthy products. I’m trying to avoid synthetic food as much as possible, because I am allergic. Of course, I was successful at the end, but it has its price (quite high).

    Subjective:
    1) No strive for excellence. What I always loved about US is ambition. I had the same attitute in my homeland. Partially because of the Soviet Repressions, but when we became independent almost 25 years ago, we applied the Americal economic model. Meaning that people really strive to work as best as they can. Normally healthy people who can work, they work full time, 8 hours per day at least, both women and men. If they lack some skills, they stay at work for longer hours just to learn, because there is an ambition to do your job as best as you can. Same I experienced in US and I liked that people value work, they all want to become professional specialists in their fields. In a few years I’ve been living here, only 2 Dutch people I know I could call ambitious. Most of them simply don’t care. They rely on social welfare system that the government will take care if something happens. Pfff.
    2) People are very lazy in general. This comes afterwards. Since they don’t even showw efforts to do their best, they don’t work effectively. They need ‘to relax’ every 30 minutes, they need to smoke every 30 minutes, they are too tired etc etc etc. There’s always a reason NOT to work. So many people (healthy!) don’t even work full time. Instead, they have an apologize ‘I need time to relax, I need to for myself’. Thanks to the government which does 52% taxation from the people who really work hard. Why? Just because the lazy ones could continue sitting on the sofa and watching TV all their life. Yes, this is what they do during that relaxation time most often. And the ones who strive, the ones who work hard have to pay for the needs of the lazy ones. Such a socialism.
    3) Shitty customer service. Taking my first two points into consideration, this is obvious. They just have this ‘can’t be done’ and ‘this is impossible’ mentality. Because they don’t care. Because they feel like they do you a favour for providing a service. ‘The client is always right’ attitute doesn’t exist in the Netherlands. I do agree, some clients can be impolite and you need to show them that they need to behave. But wait, this is the client who pays you money (and pays a lot in this country). Without a client your services would be useless, so come on, move your ass and at least try to help him/her! I believe this post-crisis period will be a good lesson for this country. With a constantly decreasing GDP and growing unemployment rates, they have to rethink the mentality as well.
    Even such companies as Samsung – which is a great company where I worked here – avoid to hire Dutch people. Why? The HR people (one of them Dutch himself, by the way) told me that they don’t need lazy people. They need ambitious people who want to succeed, who really do their best and who strive to become the professionals. And that’s correct. At my department, which consisted of 14 people, only 1 was Dutch. The others? Chinese, Polish, Americans, Italians, Mexican, Lithuanian, Greeks.
    4) Still believing they are the best. That I can’t even explain. They just refuse to consider any criticizm and keep believing in their superiority. According to them, Turkish and Maroccians are lazy, Eastern Europeans do crimes here, Americans and British are troublemakers and noise makers. Nobody knows how to behave, except the Dutch. However, I noticed that Turkish and Maroccian shops are open the longest hours and these people try to do their best in order to survice, strive, work hard. On the contrary to the Dutch sitting on their sofas and relaxing all day. The only Eastern Europeans I know graduated from the universities here cum laude and had to prove that they are qualified enough to work here among the superior Dutch. Now they have perfect positions that even they Dutch peers don’t have. The Americans and Brits are the most friendly people I’ve met here. Interesting to talk, open, no appointments needed just to have a cup of coffee or beer together.
    5) Racism. I already told about the stereotypes they use against the nationalities. Of course, they don’t declare this in public, because that would destroy their image as a superliberal country. HAHA. What a joke. Here people pretend to be tolerant in public, but they will discuss the matter behind your back. And will keep smiling to your eyes, of course.
    6) Education. There are some awesome schools here, of course. But they are incredibly expensive. I haven’t tried schools myself, but… I met people at the university during my exchange here at UvA. They level of questions I personally got was very low. People who already did their masters asked me questions about my homeland, like ‘so do you have electricity there?’, ‘it should be very terrible to live in Eastern Europe’, ‘oh, and you also have internet there, huh?’
    They were amazed by my answers that then internet speed we have is one of the fastest in the world, free wifi is almost everywhere including the forests and we were one of the very first in the world to introduce electronic voting system. And that my bathroom was bigger than a typical student room in the Netherlands. I was amazed by the number of stereotypes they have here. My question was if they learn geography, history. What do they do at school? I mean, during my geography lessons I had to know ALL existing countries in the world with all their capitals, plus other information like the borders, neighbours. Here I, of course, don’t compare the countries. Just saying that there are plenty of incredibly, incredibly incorrect stereotypes here and I am even more amazed that they are popular among master students.
    The university is a different level, of course. This is what I am not able to understand. I likes the Dutch university. It was a very fast pace, lots of assignments we had and so forth. But the level of schools is questionable. Besides, how people get so lazy in the job market then? Oh yes, those welfare benefits again…
    7) Healthcare. Code word: PARACETAMOL. Have you also experienced it? I agree, you don’t need to take pills every now and then, but come on. Paracetamol is not a panacea for everything. Did you break your leg? Take a paracetamol. Do you have a headache? Take a paracetamol. A flu? Paracetamol. For the one who said that they don’t want to support the pharmaneucial industry, are you seriously thinking this way? Then what is paracetamol, according to you? A candy? It is very dangerous for your liver. And the GP? That’s another joke. I feel that my GP is rather a tpsychoherapist than a doctor. I never got some blood tests or others just during regular checks. This is what I was used to.This is, actually, normal. I don’t need a GP just to have a conversation with 😀
    8) Alcohol. I’m not an abstinent myself, but here it seems that having fun without alcohol is impossible. However, being so closed and reserved might be difficult, so alcohol is probably something that at least helps them to relax.
    9) Very narrow spectrum of interests. TV and your iPad are your best friends. I don’t have much against both, but come on…
    10) Absolutely no politeness. I won’t talk about it much. Re-read about the customer service and don’t forget your daily life experiences.
    11) Neverending discussions and no action attitute. This I forgot to tell when I was talking about work. Luckily, I am working in an international environment, where action comes first. In the Dutch companies, time for action never comes 😀

    A small note for the ones who are going to criticize me. I’m open for that. But please note, I am making generalisations. Of course there are some cool and awesome people here. I met a few ones as well and that I’m happy about. But I’m posting these remarks about the entire population in general. Since the majority of people keep telling the same things, you can’t deny this is just a personal experience. There are some good things as well, e.g. public transportation, excellent cycling infrastructure. But we are all human-beings, we function among other human-beings. I don’t know if this excellent infrastructure is enough to live here, since I’m missing very mush here normal social interactions among people, including some ambition, charm, politeness and helpful attitute. Thank you for reading this and good luck to all foreigners here :)

  • Mon

    Being honest, I am glad to find non-German people who agree with me.
    The dutch can be nice and funny but their work ethic, sense of responsibility and competence are null in all areas.
    I made many friends but still had a horrible time there.

  • Mon

    Also, the Dutch are not direct, that is a myth. They eat their words and wont ever give any kind of feedback (not even negative). They are either pusillanimous or just lazy….anyway they are okay in non-work/service related settings

  • queen elizabitch

    An English person criticizing the Netherlands. Joke of the year. Your last sentence is right though. England is a real hell hole to live in.

  • queenelizabitch

    Apparently you have never met the English, Fiona. Disgusting obese binge drinking chavs.

  • hann

    Every where you go u will find something u don’t like I am a Filipino and when I was just 3 months here I barely speak dutch I tried and yet I was being criticized and laugh at because I say wrong dutch words this is when I was working in Vezet as a production worker and the person who laugh at me is a polish. One who treat me like a servant while working as a schoonmaken is from eastern Europe because she is a assistant apothekeer. One who excommunicated me in a group is from surinaam no offence to all the nationality that I mention I meet somes are good I like the dutch and I married one compare to other nationality I can still say this country is not bad. I heard some of my friends in Australia it’s not easy there. I guess every land u go u will see advantage and not. These are just my own experience. I didn’t regret being here.

  • Ed

    Depends also on your ambitions, interests and qualifications. As a basic labour – it is probably true that you’d be treated bad by other nationalities as well, even worse as you mentioned, no doubt. And in your case NL might as well be fine. If you have more education and different ambitions – things are not the same at all. WIthout any disrespect – I acually fully appreciate the work that everyone does (to be honest even more appreciation for people that do low paid jobs), needless to discuss that… It is not easy at all to build some life with hard honest work. Just want to add that the type of the work, your expectations, education level, preferences, decisions – make a big difference on how happy you will feel in the end. So much that we could talk 2 different languages. I am sure that if you were a university student in Poland, surrounded with other graduates – you’d have number of close valuable friends that would respect you and like you and share. On the other hand NL is not as nearly as nice in that way… still, essentially – I do agree – you won’t find the perfect place with perfect people, and no matter how hmmm… difficult the Dutch seem, think it is still livable, but very frustrating. My impression is that most of the people here are not looking for just immigrating, taking an exile, escaping no matter what – but they did some interesting and valuable professional things, studied nice topcis, and want to imporve, to feel like being a part of something, making a decision or contributing on micro scale at least. And NL sucks big time there. – you’re good enough to work only, as someone said. So, indeed there are different reference systems we can talk about.

  • Vampy DM

    Food poisoning its dangerous and it should take seriously as it can lead to osteoporosis, renal disfunction between others that are linked to the POISONING… And for a silly flu or cold, it also should be taken as serious as it is proven around the world to be dangerous if it is mutated.. for example the Chikungunya flu that has killed so many people… and it just start like a silly flu.. (imagine the Ebola too if no one cared for a simple flu symptom)

    Life is not about just taking care of ourselves … but raher giving and receiving … if someone feels ill or dizzy or whatever it is just so nice and educated from anyone to offer help, even a freaking glass of water … DOWN TO EARTH its be humble and nice… because others battle their demons too and we came to this EARTH to love and help … not just kill ourself gaining fortunes, furniture, pets and children …

  • nederlander

    Most bad experiences are happening in Amsterdam.

    It can be a tourist trap just like other big city’s.

    But the netherlands is bigger than Amsterdam alone.
    So if you visit the Netherlands visit also other city’s in other provences than north holland.
    Then you will see that the people there are much more friendly.
    Few examples are Maastricht,’s-Hertogenbosch,Groningen,Breda, and many more.

    is er hier iemand die nederlands spreekt of schrijft

  • Lillian

    The Dutch are cold and blunt more often than not. been here 10 years and only a couplet of Dutch friends. married to a Dutch guy, highly educated, native English speaker, can speakk Dutch pretty well and stil this place is not for sissies. you learn to live in your little bubble of friends who are also are in same boat . and they are so of the most negative and critical People i have ever met. i am positive so to them i must be fake.

  • ray1974

    Its complete non sense….please shut up with you populist talking and blame every dutch person for what happend to you…a truly a statement of a racist mind…better you go back down under……and please stay under that Australian rock where u came out….ps i know that happily not every Australian thinks the way like u..so i dont blame them for your childisch and racist behaviour!!

  • kjherstin

    This news item here is very clear and I quote: “The Netherlands has been rated among the most unfriendliest countries in the world for expatriates by Forbes magazine…”
    If that isn’t an indication of the Netherland’s true nature, then I don’t know what is. You can be rude all you like and wear your pink glasses but the reality is that if you are foreign, you are not treated fairly. If speaking the truth is offensive to you, sorry but deal with it. Calling me a racist and telling me to go to my own country just proves my point!

  • fredflange

    Yes, you are fake. Nobody likes you. Maybe you should brag a little bit less about yourself.

  • zihni ozdil

    Someone with the name Colin should do one thing: jump from the nearest bridge.
    Btw, I am glad living in the Netherlands has cost you lots of money. Someone like you deserves to get broke. Asshole.

  • IAminterdam

    I think the point is, that unless you live in the Netherlands
    you will never fully understand what most of us are talking about here. It has nothing to do with insulting the Dutch people, its about the difficulty expats face when trying to integrate into Dutch society. It can be cold, unfriendly and sometimes hostile (like everything of course, there are great things too).

    It sounds great on paper to say you respect the Dutch for their bluntness, but when you come from outside, and you are trying your best to fit in, and learn the rules, and respect the cultural landscape, its frustrating and alienating when
    you encounter one of those situations, where a Dutch

    person is unnecessarily rude. It can come across a little bit like bullying…

  • stihl

    The reason for that is because the Dutch hold value in family and youth friends.

  • Rosie

    Wow, there’s some negative stuff on here, blimey! I’ve lived in the Nethlands for about a year and I love it. I don’t find Dutch people rude at all, sometimes a little blunt but it’s clearly just a cultural difference. One thing I have noticed is that Dutch people don’t seem to make friends with people they work with very often, the opposite of what I’m used to, but once I worked that out I went and made Dutch friends elsewhere. It helps if you spreken nederlands though, that’s for sure.

  • lin sargent

    My friend had a burst appendix, he had been to the doctor the day before. The doctor did not even touch him, just said take a paracetamol. Probably flu. His appendix burst the next day, quite dangerous. I totally agree with hospital attitude, here no bedside manner at all. Very matter of fact. My Dutch friends are quite happy with the cold truth. The NHS just have a better manner of portraying bad news. They sit you down first……..

  • lin sargent

    I accept that I am a foreigner – and a second class citizen when it comes to government offices especially. Once you accept this fact, life is easier, knowing where you stand.

  • lin sargent

    Yep, Paracetamol cures EVERYTHING ! I bet they have tested the Ebola virus with it !

  • Joyce

    if you find it so difficult to live here, why not leave? I am dutch, am not saying ‘the dutch’ are all nice and sweet – I have a lot of criticisms myself on my fellow dutchwom/men, but this outpour of negativity is really too much!

  • Matt

    It’s not the Netherlands where people are rude and unfriendly towards foreigners, even the ones born and bred here. It’s Holland, which is a very specific region. If you go to the Catholic regions in the South like Brabant and Limburg people get a whole lot nicer. Basically same counts for historically Low Saxon and/or Frisian speaking communities in the East. I already told myself, when I graduate, I move to Maastricht asap. And I’m not even an expat, I’m a foreigner who grew up in Holland. Believe me, if you’re a foreigner, even fellow white-Christian-European, you’re treated differently than Dutch natives. I have friends of foreign background, born and bred in Holland, who don’t have a single Dutch friend. I’m not saying that all Dutch people are rude and unfriendly towards foreigners, it’s just a very closed community that makes it impossible for foreigners to become part of it. That’s why most foreigners stay among their own and that’s why most of those coming from 1st world countries never intend to settle here. If you break up with your partner or your contract or work permit expire, you just pack your bags and leave.

  • David

    I can’t understand why there are so many negative comments about the Dutch. I lived there for 9 years and found they were very open and friendly. I worked in construction and found all the dutch guys (and women) very friendly and helpful. The only problems i had in my time there was with the English. I am English myself, maybe that’s why. The Dutch are straight talking and down to earth. Maybe sometimes that is taken as rudeness. But i would rather have that than falseness and superficiality. I found the Dutch (i lived in Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Noordwijk, Eindhoven and stayed briefly in many other cities) very warm and welcoming.

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  • http://www.twitterendum.com/ The Designer

    Votes on this topic are open again for 2014/2015 at TwitterendumDotCom

  • vicky32Chicago,IL

    I am from the u.s. everything your saying is true i am from Chicago,IL i actually think Australian have some similar things as far as how we deal with emergency pain with take emergency serious i have IBS-C which is irritable bowel syndrome that is consider dangerous burst appendix Food poisoning and so on are real here
    .

  • vicky32Chicago,IL

    SMH glad i am in Chicago,IL born and raised don’t think i would live a day in pain anywhere else at lease you can go to see a doctor without a hassle money or not.

  • vicky32Chicago,IL

    glad shes not in the us being rude and bullying can seriously get you hurt ijs i’m just saying #Chicago,IL

  • vicky32Chicago,IL

    I can believe that only because they are far from home they have no choice but to be sweet on the outside.

  • vicky32Chicago,IL

    from the u.s.Chicago,IL and i totally understand where your coming from we call it drama here can live with you and can’t live without you it’s all crazy.

  • Nic

    “Who or which culture has the right to define what is rude or not..”

    Your entire post, but the quoted statement especially, was so extremely well said. Thank you so much for your insight. I’m thinking about moving to the Netherlands because a lot of what people are complaining about in this thread are things I’m trying to FIND in a culture – blunt honesty, lack of victimization (a “suck it up” mentality), individuality, non-traditional lifestyle acceptance, the lack of “sugar-coated” fakeness and keeping constructive thoughts to the self to avoid conflict at all costs (something many U.S. Americans are prone to which I personally find a selfish behavior), a lack of self-righteousness, and a culture that prides in individuality and realness over fairness and compassion. A community to raise a child without spoils.

    I like to read between the lines because my idea of happiness is rested in truth and reality – not sugar coating, victimization, or an expectation of compassion. To me, compassion is a survival tatic – not a way of life. In order to trust people in my circle, I need to be able to see past the compassion – I won’t trust someone on a deeper level until I find that they can deal with conflict well. I wouldn’t trust most of the people in this thread, regardless of where they’re from. All I can see from most of these people was that they didn’t even attempt to understand and integrate into Dutch culture but rather are most arrogant about their own culture being superior – it’s no WONDER Dutch didn’t care for them and ran them out (or are working on running them out). LOL.

    I’ve always felt a bit out of place here in the U.S. because of my unique beliefs and stance on life – but now that I’m reading into Amsterdam and Dutch culture, I realize that perhaps I came from the same ancestors who settled there hundreds of years ago. I am German and Norwegian by bloodline, so perhaps! 0: ) Anyway, thanks again for all the great information! – Nic.

  • AngelWings

    i think they deserve a genocide !

  • Dave

    The asked ppl’s opinion as for their experience… rude is irrelevant as this is their view

  • Dave

    What exactly gives you the right to doubt someone’s story? is it own experience?

  • Dave

    why would you assume someone can just leave if they don’t like it here? Many ppl do not have that luxury. second, they asked for ppl experience on that specific question, so ppl are expressing their views. Theoretically, we could ask you why don’t you leave this discussion, if you don’t like the opinions here… how does that feel?

  • dave

    tax office refuses to speak English… unheard of apart from 3rd world countires

  • Ron Lathouwers

    Are you okay kjherstin?

  • kjherstin

    I would leave but my fiance is Dutch and stupid immigration laws make it difficult to move to Australia

  • kjherstin

    That chapter in my life has finished, thank God! I am better thank you. I still haven’t got a job though and one day won’t have a pension. That is my biggest problem at the moment. I do volunteer’s work. I keep myself active in the community where I live and keep trying to get a payed job which is hard psychologically

  • Ron Lathouwers

    You will have no problem fitting in. I’m Dutch, have read a lot of the comments here. Had to restrain myself a couple of times from commenting on all the, in my opinion, generalizing people with a lot of self pity. But like to take this opportunity to compliment you with your insight.

  • Ron Lathouwers

    It was sarcastic, I am dutch. Your messages were very generalizing and I could not restrain myself to comment.
    In my opinion it is a matter of adaptation. You seem to generalize Dutch citizens, maybe this makes it harder to integrate?
    I

  • kjherstin

    Turn a blind eye, be sarcastic! That’s a great solution. Would be nice to find Dutch offer solutions instead of being “funny” or a smart arse

  • Ron Lathouwers

    I just gave a suggestion: stop generalizing and you might actually make some friends!

  • kjherstin

    I do have friends. That’s not what the article is about nor the complaints that we make as expats. If you read the article it states the obvious and us expats can confirm it and discuss them here. The Netherlands does not welcome foreigners, that is not generalizing, it is a fact.

  • Ron Lathouwers

    so ‘you’ expats think ‘us’ Dutch people do not welcome you? Yes that’s not generalizing at all!

    Well anyway, enjoyed our discussion, I’ll leave ‘you’ expats to continue negging again. Good luck fitting in!

  • kjherstin

    In terms of the Inburgering, not a good system at all! Helping expats get on their feet like finding a house, job opportunities or helping the needy that don’t have money for basic necessities like food, there are no mechanisms offered to us. Just having someone or some organization give you places to go to, to help you learn about the way things work in the Netherlands, something. Just once it would be nice to have someone give a solution or a work-around to this problem. Your comments hasn’t helped in the slightest.

  • Frank Wank

    You need to lie down in a darkened room. When you have relaxed a little, please rethink your life. You spend far too long on here. Seriously, for your own good, try to find something more constructive to do.

  • Ron Lathouwers

    Lived in Australia for a year, had a blast. Did an internship with no payment. 60 hours a week. Figured it out on myself. Had a blast. Made sure I spoke the language. Didn’t waste time expecting others to help me because I knew it was my choice to come there. Anyway, I guess your expectations were different. If I go to another country I except that it is me that has to adapt to the culture instead of the other way around. I bet your mentality doesn’t help you the slightest either!

  • kjherstin

    English is easy! I discovered where to get Dutch lessons for free on my own and it is bloody hard to speak this language. Australia is a high ranked country when it comes to expats. No one expects to be spoon fed. You are not amazing, you went to a country with better conditions and that is what this article is about

  • Ron Lathouwers

    No i’m not amazing, that’s sort of my point: it is normal to deal with the things that come on your path when you take an adventure…
    Yes English is easy, Dutch is probably harder… Your point being: then you have an excuse to not adapt? It is still your choice to come here.

  • Ron Lathouwers

    And I think the Netherlands is a country that has integrated English as a second language quite well, wonder how you would manage if someone does not speak your mother tongue for a change

  • kjherstin

    Adapting? How funny! I live in a Dutch oriented group. Don’t join foreigner’s activities. I teach Dutch senior citizens how to use the iPad twice a week and work for the wijkkrantdekoppel. Put up an online article help post them. More challenging than taking walks with Muslim women. Much better to do what I’m doing and use my knowledge. Is that not adapting?

  • http://www.dielangemooie.nl/ Tom

    And there we go again. I wonder how they do these studies because it must be wrong. Althroug Holland or better the Netherlands is a small country it has a lot of different regions and places with different characters and surroundings. Like peole in the west of the country tend to be more direct and opinioned fe than people in the east fe the Twente region near the german border. Here in Enschede a midsized friendly Univercity city people are way more relaxed so next time….

  • Alan Joseph Secrève

    I’ve been in this rat-basket country for sixteen years now. I thought integrating would be easier as time goes by. What a miscalculation! Even though I have all the external trappings of a fully integrated Dutchman, the reality is that I am regarded worse today than when I first arrived here, and certainly not because I deliberately offend anyone. Even the slightest mispronunciation is regarded with suspicion and a sign that I should wear the mark of Cain.
    If I turn on the tv, I see that disgusting cabeza of Paul de Leeuw, Gordon, Joling or the whole list of gentrified bottom feeders whom the Dutch hold so dear. The complete vacuous and nihilistic existence that these people adore feels like some Chinese torture. It is difficult to find your way, you are not allowed to have any ambition or upward mobility, not allowed to rise above the masses. Regardless of your understanding or skill, your general opinion is rated at the same level as some local ignoramus. The land of clogs, windmills and stunted development; these people being only talented when it comes to running you down, mocking your ways or ideas and breaking your spirit. Perhaps Emanuel Swedenborg came up with his idea of hell when he visited this place.
    I hope and pray that I would be able to leave this place soon. I can’t imagine prison being any worse than this rotten place!
    Apologies for the rant, but living here is like a poisonous arrow shot into my soul and I can’t pull it out.

  • Gus

    This happens in a lot of countries. In Germany it is the same. Official stuff like taxes, unemployment, etc, CANNOT be done in a language other than the official language.

  • The Original Fred Flange

    Ever lived there?

  • ThisOne

    So – things improve as you’re moving out of the Netherlands, right?

  • alec

    Hey all !! i’m a French national. I lived in quite a few countries throughout my life, and moved to live in the Netherlands for nine years, from 1996 to2005… The netherlands were one paradox after another. Every day. Yes, they can come accross as individualistic, hard, rude, or blunt. But what was disconcerting, and very interesting every single day, was that for every “abrupt” person, i was able to meet somebody super nice. If you don’t learn the language, and the culture, of a country where you move to, and FAST, you’re doomed to fail. By that, i mean intensive private person to person language courses in Dutch, history, and culture. It’s vital. The dutch language is like a secret code, it’s very difficult. I’m lucky to speak 7 languages, including Russian, but Dutch was by far the hardest. But, if you DO apply yourself and GET regular language courses, it will go super fast, you will feel relieved that you start to understand what’s going on around you, and you will feel pulled into their society like a magnet. Each time i tried to speak Dutch, the locals really loved it. And then of course i started to speak fluently.
    Like i tried to say earlier, for each rude person, you’ll experience a super nice one on other occasions. Isn’t it the same in other countries though?
    Ok, from my experience, i will agree with some of the previous comments. The health services are not so good, BUT – i encountered nasty nurses and doctors, and also super nice doctors and nurses. There was always someone helpful on hand. But the dutch health services, yes, i think they have a lot of problems.
    The quality of service, when you go to a restaurant or bar, is always on one extreme or the other – really bad, or super nice. But then again, it’s exactly the same in France , where i come from. You vote with your feet, and you never come back there again. My partner and i collected a few places to go to in amsterdam, and it was always gezellig, all the way.
    The country is full of culture, people are highly educated, kids speak more than 3 foreign languages from the age of 12. What other country achieves that?
    When my partner and I moved there in 1996, he had no papers to stay. Through me he got the papers to stay very easily. We were welcomed by the “vreemde politie” so nicely, it was incredible…….
    Than, me already having a great job, my partner had to look for one. he got one via the Manpower agency near Schiphol. People there? super nice again. They got him a job in IBIS-HOTEL at the amsterdam airport, the biggest in the country. He was appreciated so much and so quick for his work, that the supervisors, who every day were holding a meeting for all of the employees right after luch, started to hold those meetings in English, because he didn’t speak Dutch. It was incredible. None of the employees ever complained about it. They simply don’t give a damn what language is spoken , for as long as all understand it. IF THIS IS NOT EMPATHY, I DO NOT KNOW WHAT IS…….
    To finish my rabling here, i live in Portual now, and i love it. But do i miss Holland still? yes, absolutely….. I don’t miss the cold, i don’t miss the rain, but i do miss the culture – Portugal has perhaps even more culture, but it’s different – and most of all, i miss all of the nice people that i encountered in the Netherlands. I don’t miss the rude people, i forget about them, and i keep my head and my life clean off off them, like i would anywhere else. But when the Dutch people are nice, those super nice dutch people are probably the nicest people in the world.
    And if you make an effort to be nice to others, and if you look simply happy, the Dutch will warm up to you immediately, with no fail.

  • flyingdutchman

    Kjherstin, your experience seems to be that of an immigrant, not necessarily someone who tries to integrate in the Netherlands. Me and my family have done the opposite of what you have done, we moved from the Netherlands to Australia. We could generalise in the same way that you do and say that we’ve found Australians to be ignorant, racist, simple minded and the find the Australian society harsh and focused on money. However, that is our view of part of society, not all. There are many very friendly Australians, who are open to change and newcomers. In reality though, in any country a proportion of people are always going to be unfriendly to newcomers, or not willing to understand you. We have found that when things become hard for us, about 80% of Australians couldn’t care less and don’t want to try and understand our problems. Which is understandable because they cannot relate. They have grown up in this society and will therefore never run into the issues that we do as newcomers. I suspect it will be similar for Dutchies who meet you. Most people who meet you cannot help you because they have no idea why you have an issue. They have grown up in the Netherlands and will always fit in. Life for an immigrant will always be more difficult than that of the average Dutchman. But hey, at least you took the road not taken, and you will always have a richer experience than the average Dutchman, and you have learnt from both the Australians and the Dutch..

  • ronnah

    According to the Dutch gov my diploma in my land is equivalent to HBO here. If ur talking about ambitions and etc i think Im one of those people who wants to go further the only barrier that i see is the language if i go to england or any english speaking country my work would have been so different. But i love being here i have a wonderful husband here and i dont care if i am a cleaning lady one day i will get where i want to be. If u are already live here and have a job and etc and still u find it that this country sucks etc i think people who are like that are welcome to go back where they came from.simple as that. Or immigrate to otter country these are just my opinion

  • Claudia

    I live in The Netherlands for more than 12 years and I still don’t feel accepted here. Rudeness and discrimination are screaming every day. It’s time for me to move elsewhere.

  • Shaima

    I have been here for almost 18 months as a wife for a shell expat … And can’t wait to go home , the job post is for 3 years but we are sure to be home before that . No one of the neighbours talk to us or even say good morning except for a lovely old man .

  • gerrie

    RUDE??? ha ha… you don’t understand: THAT is their sense of humor. Making fun of you, THAT is their sense of humor. Giggling and mumbling behind their hands, THAT is dutch humor. Whispering behind their hands in a room full of people, they like that too. Soooo mysterious, especially when they throw odd glances in your direction: DUTCH HUMOR!!!

  • gerrie

    I so agree with you. When my dad was in his last months, in hospital, I spent every day with him and his MD knew I was an RN in the USA. When my dad needed a little procedure done, the MD ASKED me if I could assist. I thought it odd, but of course was glad to stay with my dad. Then I learned he got his license in the USA as well, and did not like the nurses at his hospital, who appeared to prefer smoking and having coffee every hour or so and frankly, did not know how to make the bed of an incontinent client.

  • gerrie

    All the comments I have made in the past few days are now “DETECTED AS SPAM”, such a dutch way to brush a differing opinion under the rug, thus proving my point.

    God help jullie allemaal voor de tijd dat de helft van jullie drassig landje, weer onder water is. Ik zal er geen traan om laten.

  • Maria

    Well i am indonesian chinese and looks like chinese. They think that i am chinese and start saying “miaw” and “ni hao” in the way like they make fun of you! It is indeed racist. Cant choose any different word than racist.

  • Roger

    The negative comments here may upset you as a Dutch person, but the sorry truth is that they are based in fact. I’ve lived in 6 other European countries and the Netherlands is by far the most unwelcoming. It is down to the extreme self-centredness. This attitude is reflected in the social system. For example, the method of funding the health system is unfair, backward and uncivillised (I work as an anaesthetist in it), yet many people think it’s normal and the goverment tries to delude everyone that it’s a socially fair system even though it’s one level for the rich and another for the poor. Right-wing attitudes abound and many people secretly vote for the VVD because it suits the current Dutch mentality of greed (tax avoidance is standard here) and the f*** you attitude. American style social and economic policy is worshipped here, despite the wider population bizarrely believing it ‘s values are otherwise.

    Like others have said, it is hidden behind a facade of smiles, because the average Dutch person is allergic to conflict and is very weak with social interaction – a result of self-centredness. My Frisian girlfriend recently went to work in Spain (Seville) and on her return remarked on the differences of attitude with regard to interaction and public behaviour.

    Britain, where I’m from, is full of social and political problems, but one difference is that people are at bottom more inclined to social behaviour. The reason is because, like France or Spain, it has a stronger tradition of social democracy or democratic socialism, whereas the Netherlands has very little. They may be happy with that state of affairs, but the society speaks for itself. Behind all the guff about entrepreneurial business and dynamism, is a large mass of struggling people who still believe they can become that small-business success, very much like the American mindset.

    My former girlfriend, of Surinamian origin, though speaking Dutch as a first language, was constantly treated as a foreigner, sometimes to the point of overt racism. You don’t get that sort of thing in Britain with people whose ancestors came from former colonies, like the West Indies. The Dutch have failed to assimilate the people from their old colonies to very noticeable degree. You can be sure that as a white ex-pat you will be treated better socially, but you will still be shut out.

    THe stereotypes of Dutch people are ‘gierigheid’ and bluntness, but they are both stereotypes and also the general truth.

  • ps

    If been to Amsterdam 3 times as a tourist during the last 5 years. I have faced the worst behavior from any other place i have travel. And i travel a lot!! i consider myself as a “good tourist”, I am always polite , i don’t cause any troubles , i spend money , i don’t do drugs etc. They way the locals behave to me is unacceptable (if you also consider that im a TOURIST that left money to the county). I have faced this “bullying” thing in the tram , bad behavior in a lot of a shops and hotels, i ask a couple of dutch for some directions and they look one each other and start laughing and many more. I will never travel to Holland again.

  • ps

    If been to Amsterdam 3 times as a tourist during the last 5 years. I have faced the worst behavior from any other place i have travel. And i travel a lot!! i consider myself as a “good tourist”, I am always polite , i don’t cause any troubles , i spend money , i don’t do drugs etc. They way the locals behave to me is unacceptable (if you also consider that im a TOURIST that left money to the county). I have faced this “bullying” thing in the tram , bad behavior in a lot of a shops and hotels, i ask a couple of dutch for some directions and they look one each other and start laughing and many more. I will never travel to Holland again.

  • guest

    Stop lying, you piece of filth. Especially the part about asking directions is nonsense.

  • guest

    So you are a moffenhoerenkind. That explains a lot.

  • guest

    LOL Australia, the country that send it’s refugees to Nauru. Of course in Australia itself is no room for these people.

  • guest

    Exactly, Australia has the most racist immigration laws in the world.

  • Jan Carlos

    I have been living in Groningen, obviously a far cry from the so-called Randstad culturally and geographically. Most of my exposure to the Dutch and their communities have been in provinces like Groningen and Friesland. Overall, in my daily interactions with Dutch, from grocery store clerks to doctors’ visits, the northern Dutch have been overall friendly. Now Randstad/southern Dutch…all I have to say is, I thought Berliners were cold and unfriendly, until I came to Rotterdam. Rotterdam is a great city, but its people are not (so far anyway).

  • randomdutchman

    I’m sorry to hear your experiences about the Netherlands. I also believe a lot of our so-called tolerance is mostly self proclaimed. I also believe that the 40’s 50’s and 60’s in the Netherlands was an entirely different world than it is now. I see in the older generation every single point you make. It’s entirely true what you said. But please bear in mind that the younger generation (younger than 30) actively resist acting in those ways. One of my friends thinks it’s funny to make fun of people, he (and quite a few others) do it all the time. Many other friends have told them that it’s not funny for the receiver, but insulting. It’s crazy that adult people need these kind of behavior correction. What did surprise me during my travels was how naive certain humor can be in other countries. Almost childish, in the view of a Dutch person of course. I think this is quite interesting.

    Calling someone a mof is wrong. You couldn’t help being of German descent… I know people in villages who STILL get ostracized because their grandfather (!!!) was an NSB’er. Can you imagine….

  • Lio

    I live in the Netherlands and I approve this message :-).

    Dutch people are in general lonely people themselves.They don’t have much friends and a very small and limited group of friends. A large number of Dutch people have no friends at all.

  • David

    I feel bad for Dutch people. Imagine living a life so self-centered and cold, a life so lacking in compassion and empathy.

    The saddest part is, like an illiterate child, they don’t know what they don’t know. They don’t realize how amazing it is to care and be cared about.

    Some of the people commenting below stated that after living in Holland for a period of time they became “tougher” or now they reciprocate the Dutch demeanor. I have to say that that approach makes me very sad. It’s like saying that you are going to stop reading because the people around you are illiterate. In reality, it should be quite the opposite, it puts an onus on us to teach, teach them to be kind and compassionate.

    So next time a Dutch person is rude to you (probably in the next hour), do your best to show them the kindness that you wish they showed you.

  • undutchable

    Amazing comment…describes point by point with an incredible accuracy what I feel everyday. Im just here for one and a half year.

    Don´t want to be rude with the country, it provides a very good life for the dutch and a large comunity of expats, but this “wonderland” of social acceptance and freedom is one of the biggest illusions i´ve ever seen…most expats describe Netherlands as a fairy tail… in the first three months…

    Although,in my opinion, it´s not right to say its a Dutch attitude! (I´m sure they would be proud though…)

    Considering Netherlands to be “ahead” (doesnt mean worst/better) of Europe some years (maybe decades compared to south countries), unfortunately this is cleary what future has for us all… it´s a modern times issue…fake social people with individual interests.

  • davidcorner

    Does not mean that at all. Simply means you are a low life who needs a punch in the face

  • davidcorner

    Too much? Why?

    Actually pretty good for once instead of revelling in the self glorified compliments you give yourself every day about being nice, generous, tolerant, helpful, fair, open minded…

  • undutchable

    How long were you here?… I think you just believed in the “illusion”, I said exactly the same thing when I arrived, the latin North! I was so damn wrong…

    PS: but it´s good you had nice experience…

  • Teodora Kralcheva

    Well I’ve been living in The Netherlands since I was 12 and I am now 25. And I think I become a more patriotic Bulgarian every year that goes by. I’ve had my biases as well, seen as I moved to this country at an awkward age when I just started puberty – and I was incredibly shy and asocial, with no self-esteem. Also my father stayed in Bulgaria so my life became split between two countries. My mother is very pro-Dutch and would constantly talk bad about our country and I felt like I had to defend it because otherwise no one else would and my country is my identity so I felt protective of it. Anyway after about 12 years here and changing countless schools, universities and classes I may have finally found some Dutch people I can see myself eventually becoming friends with. And I am in an international class with those Dutch people so they are more open towards other cultures and languages.

    The Dutch people are not bad, neither is the country, as any other nation – it’s got its own personality. I just don’t fit in it. I don’t share their mentality. The country is cold for me – both literally and figuratively. I need to be accepted and not judged and I don’t want to feel like I have to pass some high difficulty test in order to prove that I’m worthy enough to be someone’s friend. I need a country that values family bonds, holidays and traditions, with a rich national cuisine. I don’t like the fact that an oven in the kitchen is seen as something exclusive. I don’t like the fact that there are no mountains. I don’t like the fact that I have to wait till June or July sometimes till the summer starts and we might get a maximum of 30 degrees for a day or two, otherwise when it’s around 25 you can’t breathe from the moisture and people are dying, complaining from the ‘heat’. I don’t like that all my favourite brands and products are not sold here while they are sold in next door Germany for example. I don’t like that there are hardly any mini parks in the centre of cities where you can sit on a bench, watch a beautiful water fountain for example and enjoy the weather while drinking or eating and reading a book. I don’t like the lack of benches outside in general. I don’t like the preference and abundance of overly emotional music on the radio and lack of ‘only hits stations’ or the fact that 80% of what you hear on the radio is people talking.

    I can go on listing the small things that bother me and the big things that make me feel day after day that I just don’t belong here. But I respect the country and the people for letting me live here for so long – I will move out as soon as I finish my studies and find a job.

  • Jayne Moran

    I lived in the Netherlands for twenty years. Probably the rudest nation I have come across to be fair, but as Anne mentions below, there are some wonderful wonderful kind, friendly people. Masking the rudeness by calling it direct is the single most irritating explanation I have heard so many times over the past twenty years, there is a huge difference. I am pretty direct but extremely polite, rudeness is neither necessary or acceptable. I loved my time in the Netherlands, but now I am living somewhere else, I realise just how rude and unfriendly a lot of people were when I was over there.

  • caleta

    i have found the solution to solve the rudeness and egoistic manners ot these people ,talk to them like you are nazi ,the will respect you and leave you alone !

  • caleta

    There is one Dutch word thats knows everyone in the world ,” Apartheid’ is that word ,do you know what ia am trying to say ?

  • Mirka

    As a white expat, you will be treated better unless you have slavic origin..In that case you will be reminded every day that you are lower class..Sad.

  • Sad Dutchperson

    Everything is still very true. I am Dutch and was fortunate enough to meet some expats early enough in my life to look at my own country with a magnifying glass, and it looks bad. PS: never think if you work with a Dutch person you can become their friend, you’ll get as far as ‘work-friend’ and you get invited outside of real friend hours. Birthdays with food are also non-existent (no Dutch people, plakjes worst and kaas en bitterbollen is not real food)

  • ruben

    hehe you know i am from Armenia and wanna to say that in my country that anyone listen the world Holland they think that somethink is gay or lesbian,,,such a feeling here many people think that if you are from holland sure u r gay and pervert and when you see i am going to holland they will think u r gonna be gay hahahahhah ,,but anyway our armenian culture so far to have common with stupid dutch culture,,,we offer food even the strangers yesss we are not getting poor after thet ,,its just a warm feeling ,,,dutch can eat food secretly or be icy or how to say ,,hehe thet way working machine ,,,,, but after that always remember that holland is really nice country to gain money ,,,but stay away from fucking turkish traders they are sex starving idiots and only can pick up hookers only hookers ,,but educated dutch girl is above that to make a close relationship with turks

  • Bill Morrison

    Why don´t you shove a fistful of needles up your ass?

  • Wishingiwasnotdutch

    Anybody know how I can renounce my Dutch citizenship for another EU citizenship? Problem Is I currently live and work in Asia. I have been living abroad almost my whole life and to be honest do not wish to be associated with the Dutch anymore… I’m sure some of you might understand why… Any advice is helpful. Cheers

  • nagornokarabachisazeri

    Homophobic much?

  • guest

    Must be easy for you since you are a nazi.

  • guest

    No what is it you are trying to say? That you are an idiot?

  • Greg Palermo

    Lol, this article must have been written by a German as there is no way Germany should be on the list of friendly countries, I lived there for 15 years. I do agree with the Netherlands though, I’ve been there many times and I was never impressed by their customer service.

  • Guest

    Canada was most welcoming for the second year in a row; more than half of survey-takers there said they’d made friends with locals.

    That’s the thing. I have been living here for 30 years and the Netherlands is clean and well organized but that’s it. It is nearly impossible to make friends. If you are lucky they will treat you like a exotic animal. Lucky meaning you are white and coming from a western country. If you are not lucky ? They will treat you like a sub human parasite. A country is made up of people. It is not possible to like a country if the people are jerks. The Dutch have beautiful bike paths. Nice high ways. Nice buildings. Excellent cable/internet. These are all things. Not people. Their people skills suck moose balls. Quite frankly and I say this with all honesty ? The moffen gassed the wrong people.

  • guest

    Exactly, they should have killed you and your family.

  • Kate

    I have never lived in Holland so I don’t really know what its like to live there, but my fiancé lived there for a year and I used to visit him for quite extended periods. He had some very nice, welcoming Dutch friends that I got to know quite well. I can believe that its not the easiest place for an expat but I don’t think its fair to paint everyone with the same brush.

  • Andrea Monica

    Am Andrea Monica. Greetings to every one that is reading this testimony. I have been rejected by my husband after three(3) years of marriage just because another woman had a spell on him and he left me and the kid to suffer. one day when i was reading through the web, i saw a post on how this spell caster called Dr.ogala, have help a woman to get back her husband and i gave him a reply to his address and he told me that a woman had a spell on my husband and he told me that he will help me and after 2 days that i will have my husband back. I put all my faith in you and followed your directions to the letter. We are happier now more than ever. the whole thing looks wonderful and so natural! That’s the most amazing thing i experience with your love spell. i believed him and today i am glad to let you all know that this spell caster have the power to bring lovers back. because i am now happy with my husband. words Aint enough to say thank you. but from the deepest part of my heart, i will show my gratitude by sharing this testimony all over, and let them know that you are the best spell caster. thanks for bringing back my ex husband. His email: [email protected] call him +2348163395533..

  • Andrea Monica

    Am Andrea Monica. Greetings to every one that is reading this testimony. I have been rejected by my husband after three(3) years of marriage just because another woman had a spell on him and he left me and the kid to suffer. one day when i was reading through the web, i saw a post on how this spell caster called Dr.ogala, have help a woman to get back her husband and i gave him a reply to his address and he told me that a woman had a spell on my husband and he told me that he will help me and after 2 days that i will have my husband back. I put all my faith in you and followed your directions to the letter. We are happier now more than ever. the whole thing looks wonderful and so natural! That’s the most amazing thing i experience with your love spell. i believed him and today i am glad to let you all know that this spell caster have the power to bring lovers back. because i am now happy with my husband. words Aint enough to say thank you. but from the deepest part of my heart, i will show my gratitude by sharing this testimony all over, and let them know that you are the best spell caster. thanks for bringing back my ex husband. His email: [email protected] call him +2348163395533

  • Dick Kok

    If it’s really that bad in the Netherlands, maybe we should all be happy you left. It’s probably better for all of us. :-)

  • mr bennad

    BE VERY CAREFUL HERE NOBODY CAN HELP YOU HERE OR EVEN SUGGEST HOW YOU CAN GET YOUR EX BACK,THEY ARE SCAMS AND ANY TESTIMONIES OF MOST SPELL CASTERS HERE MUST BE IGNORED. THEY ARE SCAMS I MEAN REAL SCAMS WHICH I WAS A VICTIM

    MY NAME IS PEACE I AM FORM USA I GOT RIPPED OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS BECAUSE
    I WAS SO ANXIOUS TO GET MY EX AFTER HE LEFT ME FOR OVER 2YEARS. I HAVE APPLIED TO 7 DIFFERENT SPELL CASTER HERE AND ALL TO NO AVAIL THEY ALL ASK FOR SAME THING SEND YOUR NAME YOUR EX NAME ADDRESS AND PICTURE PHONE NUMBER ETC, WHICH I DID OVER AND OVER AGAIN AND MOST OF THEM WERE FROM SOUTH AFRICA AND NIGERIA UNTIL I SAW THIS WRITE UP ONLINE ABOUT DR EKPEN DOUBTED IT SO MUCH BUT ON THE OTHER HAND MY OTHER MIND TOLD ME TO GIVE THIS LAST GUY A CHANCE AND SO I DECIDED TO MAIL HIM. HE SAID MY EX WILL COME BACK IN 2 DAYS

    BUT THE COST OF THE MATERIALS IS JUST $250 AS I HAVE PAID OVER $3000 ON SPELL CASTING AND COURIER AND NOTHING HAS WORKED FOR ME. AFTER THAT NIGHT I WAS THINKING ABOUT HOW MUCH I HAVE LOST SO FAR, WELL I SAID LET ME GIVE HIM A TRY SO I MAILED HIM AGAIN AND SENT MY DETAILS AND THAT OF MY EX AND THE $250 BECAUSE I SWEAR IT WAS MY LAST TRY SO I WAS WAITING AS HE TOLD ME TO WAIT FOR TWO DAYS AND I COULD NOT SLEEP THOSE NIGHTS BECAUSE I REALLY MISSED MY EX AND WANTED HIM BACK BY ALL MEANS. AT 9PM EXACTLY THE SECOND DAY I SAW GREG ONLINE ON FACEBOOK AND HE SAID HI AT FIRST I WAS SHOCKED BECAUSE HE NEVER TALKED WITH ME FOR THE PAST TWO YEARS, I QUICKLY REPLY YES AND HE ASKED IF WE CAN SEE THE NEXT DAY AND I SAID YES AND HE WENT OFFLINE

    I WAS CONFUSED I TRY TO CHAT WITH HIM AGAIN BUT HE WAS NO MORE ONLINE I COULD NOT SLEEP THAT NIGHT AS I WAS WONDERING WHAT HE WAS GOING TO SAY, BY 7.AM THE NEXT MORNING HE SENT ME A MESSAGE ASKING MY WHERE ABOUT AND I TOLD HIM. YOU WON’T BELIEVE THAT EXACTLY 8.AM HE WAS ABLE TO LOCATE ME, HE WENT DOWN ON HIS KNEES AND STARTED PLEADING THAT I SHOULD TAKE HIM BACK AND HAS PROMISED TO LOVE ME FOR ETERNITY AND THAT ALSO HE IS NOT GONNA EVER HURT OR CHEAT ON ME. NOW WE ARE BACK AGAIN AND I HAVE PROMISED DR EKPEN THAT I
    WILL TELL THE WORLD ABOUT HIM. I STILL MAIL AND THANK HIM AS MY LIFE WAS NOT COMPLETE WITHOUT GREG PLEASE BE CAREFUL HERE I HAVE BEEN SCAMMED THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS IF YOU WANT A REAL AND GENUINE SPELL CASTER THEN CONTACT DRekpen nowNOW THROUGH HIS EMAIL. [email protected]

    AND HE CAN HELP YOU WITH THE FOLLOWING PROBLEM
    (1) If you want your ex back.
    (2) Hiv Cure
    (3) if you always have bad dreams.
    (4) You want to be promoted in your office.
    (5) You want women/men to run after you.
    (6) If you want a child.
    (7) You want to be rich.
    (8) You want to tie your husband/wife to be yours forever.
    (9) If you need financial assistance.
    (10) Herbal care
    (11) H.i.v Cure
    MAIL HIM NOW AND HE WILL HELP YOU [email protected] YOU ARE
    GREATER THAN ALL SPELL CASTER GOOD LUCK

  • http://oliesykes.tumblr.com/ Glaceons

    Yes, I hate it here, wish I could get out of here as soon as possible. I’m Dutch, it’s a strange society here.

  • illiuminati

    So you can imagine what dose of discrimination receives Eastern Europeans here of course if they looking for something better than greenhouse, factory or warehouse. And even if you will get job in the office you will be discriminated anyway – dutch ppl are rude and not friendly, always snitching you and looking for a reason to fire asap.

  • boganus

    Was there to study for 13 months as a post-graduate student and it was painful. I made some great friends (other internationals) while studying and enjoyed the University experience, but the culture, society, the people, were largely painful.

    Even in the University, where the program was taught in English, the Dutch students made minimal effort to make connections with the internationals, surprising at least from a self interest point of view of building future business networks. As soon as class finished they took off to be with their Dutch friends. No curiousity, not even self interested promotion. I tried numerous times to build such networks, but their is an interesting refusal to see beyond the Netherlands – this was most international students’ experience in my program.

    The academic institutions are frustrating bureaucracies from which you can never get a straight answer, get passed from person to person, get told the wrong or inconsistent information and go through numerous pointless processes to get basic things done. A favourite (!) was their refusal to talk directly to students when the students had concerns, instead hiding behind emails and being ‘busy’.

    As others have commented here, they conflate rudeness with directness and yes, I know the difference.

    More broadly speaking, ‘tolerance’ is a simply a clever euphemism for completely ignoring and excluding others from meaningful engagement – we’ll not bother you provided you don’t expect to engage with us.

    As would be expected, the ones I had the best experience with were those with broader international experience – they ‘got’ the give and take and expectations when dealing with others from different backgrounds.

  • guest

    “I am pretty direct but extremely polite”

    Doesn’t it hurt to put feathers in your own ass. Out of curiosity, does everyone from your country brag that much, or is it only you?

  • Monica

    Hi, Randomdutchman, I just wanted to thank you for your words, they mean a lot for expats living in NL like me. I am married here to a dutchman I met in Venezuela, my country of origin, and after 10 years I have continue to suffer from all what was mentioned here, Many times I though about divorcing my husband and going back home, but we have children and mostly for them I have stayed in the marriage. I am well educated with two degrees but I have until now not succeded to find a job, there is always an excuse to reject me. So, it is relieving seeing that there are people out there who are different and who can see that the so called tolerance is a fantasy.

  • monica

    Short, to the point, I couldn’t say it better!

  • monica

    Spot on

  • F

    you should try Italy, then :)

  • Darell Lamont Delaney

    O grew up in the Netherlands but I’m from landgraaf so maybe in less populated areas

  • savior udo

    DR.SAVIOR temple analyse your case is a famous astrologer in world wide magical native lost love spells, I can bring back your ex-husband to you , if you still love them and want them back. Even if they have remarried my lost love spells will bring them back and they will love you once again. Why should you be lonely when there is someone out there who have a strong connection with and truly love. Lost love spells to bring back a ex-wife Did you realise how much you loved your wife after your divorce, you can email dr.savior [email protected]

  • stacyazareum

    Very true indeed I felt like my ex dutch boyfriend’s parents hated me because at first I was daring him and I was very happy until he gave me the message that he can’t come here to see me because his family made him get a job there if you are dating a man over there or any country don’t expect for them to fly to you because that will never happen.

  • Bern

    Welcome to the Netherlands, just don’t forget to swallow your daily antidepressants ( antidepressiva ) and you will have the time of your life !

  • Mooi Damsel ~

    I definitely agree with this reputation ! I’ve spent 3 months there at my boss’ place for a training period and they treated me less than a dog ! I did not have a bed to sleep, I had to sleep under a desk on a small mattress ! Sometimes, they locked me at home because “you will be more useful here to clean everything than to go to work”. And everyday worst ! The fact was that I needed this internship to validate my course..

  • Paul Black

    After watching the Voice uk `i watched girl Esmee Denthers who sang on show. I though how she typifies the dutch, completely up her own ass, arrogant and very very rude to one of panelists who wanted to pay her a compliment. Oh you just want to hit on me, typical. These people folded like a cheap plastic chair in 2nd world war. She shouldn’t even be on show, its not meant to be for failed divas with silly fake american accents.

  • guest

    Bla bla bla bla bla.

  • Prospectus employee

    I was invited by a recruiter to attend a job interview and meet with director Joost Ligtvoet for ‘Frontend designer’ at (TheMobileCompany) Amsterdam

    I want to explain a little bit about my background. I am American (usa) born and of mixed heritage (black american-asian, misc.) I am a registered Apple® developer in the areas of interface design and graphics. I attended one of the top colleges in the world and have also been published internationally in mainstream media, including New York city, for my work in the areas of art and design. I have contributed in the areas of art, design and development for over 20 years.

    The interview went badly. It was clear, in my opinion, that from the beginning that a black male was not expected. It was clear that I was not correct for the position, given that company person sought someone who codes primarily. Whereas my skill set revolves around design more than coding. Though I am skilled in the area of development, coding is not my specialty though I do possess some formal training in the area.

    However what followed from the company representative could not be called professional. Despite the content I shared with the company representative. My training and experiences were utterly dismissed. It was explained by Mr. Ligtvoet that I possessed no skills in the areas of design and development. His tone and posture was disrespectful and dismissive of me and it was clear that he wanted me to leave. The interview felt rushed the entire time and I did not have much time to share with him additional examples of my work. Though I do not think that it would have made any difference. The company representative’s attitude towards my work in general seemed to stem from a blatant disrespect of me. Lastly, at one point during the interview I shared a selection of my recent work with him via my iPhone. At which point following his lack of interest in even reviewing my work properly. He flicked the iPhone back to me across the table with his finger. The phone was not placed in my hand.

    This action made it very clear to me that my work credits, skills and personal belongings meant absolutely nothing to Mr. Ligtvoet and ‘The Mobile Company’.

    My name sounds like a muslim name. However I am not a muslim nor is my name. However I felt that my name in combination with my darker appearance may have had some factor in why I was treated poorly. I left the interview feeling humiliated, degraded professionally and personally insulted.

    Perhaps this kind of treatment is often experienced by continental Africans, asian, muslims or even Surinam people? Who may not speak up as a result of some sort of fear. However as an American who has contributed all over the world in some of the most competitive IT markets, including New York City. I felt that this little (The Mobile Company) has a lot of nerve treating experienced professionals in this manner. I felt it correct to report and file a report documenting experience to some authorities who deal in this form of human rights abuse and discrimination. My assumption is that (The Mobile Company) will continue to discredit and openly discriminate, mistreat potential employees in this manner. The interviewer left me emotionally upset for days after and during the Christmas season. It was a degrading experience.

    Holland is a very racist place, however I have found that the bulk of it’s racism is to be found mainly in business and academia. Which in my opinion is rampant with a blatant hatred of ethnic people. There is a process of systematic exclusion of non-white and non dutch people. Though sometimes token asians (indian) are allowed. Many dutch truly believe that their little country is prime in the world. Despite the fact that the single state of Florida has GDP about equal to holland’s. The idea that they could in some kind of way feel that mistreating first world people, even those from america who represent industry is a valid and acceptable thing to do. Tells me a lot about holland and how they view themselves when compared to other people. Also it tells me a lot about how the ethnic people in holland are treat. My heart really goes out to them. I am speaking mainly about the africana, muslims, asians and even other europeans, especially southern and eastern eu people who have to put up with this kind of treatment. I have since left Holland and abandoned investing my resources and skills there. This company is not the first to act in this manner. There is a serious undertone of racism here that is widespread.

  • guest

    “The idea that they could in some kind of way feel that mistreating first world people, even those from america who represent industry is a valid and acceptable thing to do.”

    Are you saying that you are superior to people from countries that are not first world?
    In that case you deserve to be treated like this.

  • chris kyle

    Someone from the country that gave the word American Sniper should be very quiet.

  • Max

    I also want to say that they are unfriendly to Forreigners, Immigrants, etc, because they only talk bad about Forreigners, and as a Forreigner you are never good enough in their eyes, and they havealso double standards when it comes to judging and sentecing Dutch people and Forreign people in their country, although a lot of Forreigners are born and raised in Netherlands, that doesnt make a difference for the Dutch authorities, as a Forreigner or Immigrant you will almost always be stronger and severe punishment for various offenses and crimes than a Dutch person will be, there are a lot of evidence for that and also various research who shows that, even by Dutch research and investigation, so there isn’t really a equal treatment in Netherlands for Forreigners, Immigrants and Dutch orign people, and this isn’t fair, because they expect from us Forreigners to make a contribution to their country, but at the same time, you don’t have the same rights as a Dutch person !

  • Guest

    I would like to add something about Dutch healthcare, maybe the WORST in the western world: GPs do not perform obvious physical tests that are completely taken for granted in most other countries, unless you beg them, and sometimes it is pretty clear that most GPs do not KNOW how to perform them. Because of monopoly from big insurance companies it is severely discouraged to have any further tests or to see specialists. The delirious things is that, while in the US for example if you have the money you just take an appointment with a specialist and pay for it, here it is completely impossible, unless your as***le GP signs for it, which he/she is not likely to do. It is a mystery to me how these people survive, one year ago I was left with pneumonia completely abandoned without any kind of medical care, except for the tests that I did in first aid, for which I had to pay 500$ on top of the 1600$ of health insurance that I paid absolutely for nothing.
    My advice is: if you are not in perfect health and sturdy as they are constantly cycling in the rain, RUN to some other country with a civilized healthcare.

  • Cristy

    I would like to add something about Dutch healthcare, maybe the WORST in the western world: GPs do not perform obvious physical tests that are completely taken for granted in most other countries, unless you beg them, and sometimes it is pretty clear that most GPs do not KNOW how to perform them. Because of monopoly from big insurance companies it is severely discouraged to have any further tests or to see specialists. The delirious things is that, while in the US for example if you have the money you just take an appointment with a specialist and pay for it, here it is completely impossible, unless your as***le GP signs for it, which he/she is not likely to do. It is a mystery to me how these people survive, one year ago I was left with pneumonia completely abandoned without any kind of medical care, except for the tests that I did in first aid, for which I had to pay 500$ on top of the 1600$ of health insurance that I paid absolutely for nothing.

    My advice is: if you are not in perfect health and sturdy as they are constantly cycling in the rain, RUN to some other country with a civilized healthcare.

  • Mary

    sometimes it’s not even necessary to be a foreign to be rejected, the only thing needed is to have dark skin.
    This is the most racist “tolerant” country that I have ever seen, and if you pay attention you will never encounter a non-white person in high circles while most of the workers in for example chain restaurants will be non white. I never thought about it, being white myself, then I heard some horror stories from some surinamse friends and I started paying attention. Worked in a company of 50000+ employees, the only colored ones were to be found in the cleaning staff. Yuck

  • John

    Can I mention the degree of incompetence among paramedics and alternative therapists? Apparently a two-weeks’ course is enough to be able to practice and charge 70 euros per hour. I wonder why they don’t make more controls or set standards. The same apply to a lot of other categories, although maybe that is worse in Amsterdam where scammers abound.

  • Christy

    ahem, now at home for 32 days with a fever, last year had a bad infection that I had to cure at home for 52 days with alternative therapies found on the internet and got by home delivery and by praying a lot (!), because I couldn’t any kind of cure and I was in no condition to take a plane to a country with actual healthcare.
    That paracetamol thing is offensive and diminishing (and also pretty dumb not knowing the cause of one’s illness) and the usual interest that a sick person rouses in the general Dutch doctor is against all human rights standards.
    “Down to earth” in my experience means being missing a heart or any kind of human feelings. Will never forget a guy I knew who around day 40 of my illness offered me to bring me with a car to the hospital “but only because he liked me, otherwise he would have never done it” a real humanitarian. But for a couple of exceptions, the general population seems very much cold hearted, although that is just my impression of course.

  • Christy

    DONE! 😀 Next week, thank god…

  • Christy

    Honestly, I lived in 5 different countries, in three of them I had to learn the language, I never found a place where it was more difficult to practice the language than here. After two words everyone tends to interrupt with a disgusted look on their face, because my pronunciation is offensive to them, and they switch to english, unless it’s a social occasion or some work meeting, where it seems forbidden to throw in even a word of english, even if that would be a really kind thing to do.
    That was my experience. I am sure it happens in other countries too but put together with the general unfriendliness, it does hurt…

  • Christy

    it probably works only on the Dutch patients 😀

  • Christy

    mmm, I feel I must warn you about the self righteousness…

  • Marina

    I am very very sad to say that that was my exact experience with the four Dutch persons whom I called friends in these years :( I am sure it is just accidental, it’s not possible that a whole country shares the same track, but several times I had the feeling that I was their “foreign jockey” to be thrown away as soon as they got tired of it or after the novelty waned off…

  • Filip

    yeah,me too as an italian at 90% of meetings both work and personal hear some cracks about Mafia and I have to “ah ah ah” laugh, as a sense of humor I find it a bit repetitive

  • Christy

    my experience is that I was treated as an old friend for 3 months in a row tops, to be thrown back to my status of unsavory foreigner after that. Still don’t understand why, my guess is that my different tracts and independent thinking were “cute” in the beginning but they got threatening or “unbecoming” after a while.

  • Christy

    ahah, they invented Big Brother too! (Endemol)

  • Christy

    also it’s about being really cold hearted, tight with their feelings as well as their money, looking down on poor health, poor wealth or any kind of weakness, hiding their old folks like they are something repulsive and passing laws to euthanize depressed people and children who might pull it off after some months because “it upsets the patients”, refusing to show any kind of kindness or good heart or vulnerability in the name of “Sterke” (be strong) (god, how many Facebook threads I have seen after posts of people with cancer or in the hospital, only foreigners would write: poor you I feel for you, you must be so sad, all the others would write “sterke” – went to two Dutch funerals, they were the saddest thing I have ever seen, and not because of the dead, but because of the lack of empathy from everyone) (end of parenthesis)
    it’s about enforced volunteering as part of the benefit system, and people getting payed to take care of their old parents, which is great but, but… I haven’t met many willing to take care of their old parents or volunteering, actually I haven’t met hardly anyone like that.
    This is my humble experience, and most probably the 300 people, mostly dutch, who I have been in close contact with in four years (because one thing must be said, social life here is great if one is happy with chit chat) were not the right ones.

  • John

    nothing worse than a deeply intolerant society deluding themselves to be the most tolerant of all

  • Christy

    I think that is really the least of problems here, as the weather

  • Christy

    there are always exceptions :)

  • Christy

    no country is perfect, but honestly I have never ever been scammed in my whole life half as much as I was in two years in Amsterdam: by the heater company, twice by mechanics who gave me back my scooter without fixing it making me risk my life and that of others (500e and 700e for a problem that was fixed by a honest (turkish) guy for 30euros), lawyer/accountant, keeping me on the phone to talk about her children then charging me for that, music school attracted me with the bait of an international environment then refused to give any kind of explanation in english and would get angry if from time to time I asked for clarifications… Scam in housing, someone made me a contract for a house that was in fact a condemned building full of asbestos.. mobbing at work, because they hired me for something but they forced me to do something else and didn’t want me complaining…
    there is more
    I suspect it is just Amsterdam, when I was living in Leiden everyone seemed really nice.

  • Christy

    “few days” like 28 with a fever? Also, one month with 2 herniated disks in the back, that got diagnosed only after taking a plane and having some proper test? A friend of mine killed because they wouldn’t test her for cancer for months? Once I almost made a Dutch lady cry with jealousy, telling her how my GP in another country would give me a complete check up for free without me begging for it if he hadn’t seen me for some months, only because he CARED for me and didn’t want me to get sick. And it’s not the doctor who saw me grow up or anything, just a decent doctor. In another country I can make a phone call and get the best specialists and as many second opinions as I want, is that possible here? I don’t think so, unless one sucks the GP’s d** or god knows what works to have them sign the papers because it doesn’t seem like even bribery would work. I cannot imagine how someone with recurrent health issues can survive here. I guess they don’t…

  • Jim

    Amen my friend…

  • Christy

    it almost killed me as well, I hope to survive these last two weeks before I move away from here with an untreated lung infection… I am desperately trying to be equanimous and don’t hate everyone but I must say the number of very bad things greatly exceed the good for me in this country

  • Christy

    Natural gases? It is still a mystery to me

  • Christy

    Hi Lola, I reply 8 months later than you – 4 years of efforts, going out of my way to meet people and be nice, trying to integrate and yes, also trying to speak Dutch, and nothing – to tell the truth, I haven’t even met anyone that i would consider a great person, and everyone feels a bit having the same opinions and thoughts about life and things, and honestly in my whole life I have never been so bored than in the last 4 years, but yes, I just wanted to tell that (I pray that is the case for me as well) maybe it’s not you..

  • Christy

    “myself” loves community and belonging, hugs, impromptu dinners and events, surprises, creativity, ambitions, dreams, roll on the floor laughing fun, adventures, and that is why I am moving next week

  • Christy

    I registered for the Inburgeringcursus, I had to quit after a while because the teacher just wanted to have some light conversation in English! and the other teacher would simply put you in front of the computer with exercises and leave you alone.
    I did try to learn Dutch but also in the end there was no reason to learn it, no friends to speak with, only pretty unsavory people I met, I thought there was something wrong with me but in the other 5 countries were I lived I mostly had good experiences…

  • Christy

    I can beat that: this lady, after a year of frequentation, told me: I have seen you enough (because we would meet maybe once every 2/3 weeks) – not to talk about all the others who were extremely friendly until seeing my disability scooter, at least 4 performed the fastest disappearing act ever

  • blade000

    Nope, you are so wrong! Racism can be common and most countries keep quiet about it except Malaysia. The constitution of Malaysia clearly states racism and partiality are legal. Don’t believe it? Just ask any Malaysian and they will tell you the truth.

  • blade000

    For example, Malay Malaysian (irregardless of wealth status) always get 10% discount from any property/car deal, other non-Malay Malaysian don’t. Malay can enter into local universities with SPM result (equivalent to GCSE) while others must use STPM (equivalent to A-level). Malay can easily get scholarship to study abroad while others cannot. Malay can enjoy much higher interest rate from certain banks while others cannot. Malay has over 60% population is the country but most of them live in rural areas, the most terrible thing is they don’t usually pay tax and they don’t work hard either…meanwhile others have to pay most tax. So, do you still think Australia has the most racist immigration law? think again.

  • Rico

    It’s funny to see all the amounts of judgments in the reactions. Ask yourself, if you judge ‘the Dutch’ so easily, are you any better? Or are you going to be finger-pointing here? So what does all these negative comments say? It tells everything about the experience you used to color your reality. People can be mean, but they can be mean in any culture anywhere in the world. Wise people turn the other cheek and don’t do the same back. If you do the same, you are the same and you have no right to complain about anyone.

    I’m dutch. My group of friends consists of all nationality’s. I like cultures and languages. I can write my name in arabic, hindu etc. I currently live in Spain and I’ve always been welcoming to every HUMAN. Yet even though Spain is under one of the most welcoming, I didn’t perceive the ‘welcoming’ experience at first. Does that mean Spain is bad? No. Does that means Spaniards are bad? No. Does that mean I had a bad experience and it’s up to me to decide if I let that color the way I look at Spain or Spaniards? Yes and after some time I’ve met a lot of wonderful people.

    You attract what you are. If you don’t like what you attract, look inside and transform your own negativity (and thus your reality). Can we please, finally stop hating and start being kind to each other on this planet?

  • forKnowledge

    Christy, I’m sorry to hear that! I don’t know where you’re moving, but If you really need treatment before that, take the train to France, and see any GP: he/she will provide treatment for 22 euros, and most Dutch insurances reimburse it, along with the Meds the doc might prescribe you! (That’s bc meds are cheaper in France). and in case the French Doc thinks you need to see a specialist or even hospitalization, you’ll get it no matter what! I.e. you don’t have to pay anything in the hospital ( a social worker’ll figure out how to get the money from the Dutch, as long as you’re a “tourist”, and even if you couldn’t pay, they’d be obligated to treat you, and they would send any left-over bill to your Dutch address i.e. they *know* that 99% of the time, they won’t get paid.

    Also, remember to cancel Health Insurance and declare your move to city-hall *before* moving: I hadn’t and the Dutch kept trying to withdraw money from my bank account (which I had to keep, for getting a tax refund). Ironically, it’s Ohra which was the pushiest..

    And, above all, be happy and healthy in your “new” country!!!
    Never missed ONE thing about the NL, and my family’s much better off now :-)
    Cheers,

  • boganus

    Unfortunately Rico many who have written here have had the same, repeated experiences. Not just one or a few, but many in a systematic way. This demonstrates a cultural trend peculiar to Holland. Not everyone who smokes get cancer, but consistently enough do for it to be impossible to deny the effects of nicotine and tobacco.

  • Jack

    You can like different cultures as much as you wish. What people say here is that they are discriminated as workers and as human beings. Many examples: higher rents, completely different job proscpects for expats and non-blonde non van Something – regardless of their expertise and how much they generate for the economy and which kinds of jobs they do. Pure examle – academic environments. Ok, they will leave and go somewhere else later perhaps, when they switch to other projects doesn’t matter – but the point is that the treatment they had here is crap and that lasts for years, and it’s not like they are negative and bla, bla – they are actually very kind people. Really dude – the fact that you are pacifist, can sign yourself in hindu and travel wherever do this/that has nothing to do with what people complined about.

  • Johan Sterk

    Oh dear.

  • Johan Sterk

    If you don’t like it in the Netherlands, LEAVE.

  • Johan Sterk

    Talking about socialism, did you compare Dutch social benefits with those of the UK?

  • Johan Sterk

    So why come to the Netherlands?

  • Johan Sterk

    How is English easier than Dutch?

  • Johan Sterk

    Antibiotics are very unhealthy.

  • Johan Sterk

    This complaint is very old indeed. In the 17th century, noble foreign travelers were appalled by the fact that commoners did not move aside when they strolled through Amsterdam and that maids were as well dressed as their ladies.

  • Johan Sterk

    Go do it, nobody is stopping you.

  • Jeroenske

    Now THIS ladies and gentlemen is NOT honest dutch directness. No THIS is just plain shitty rudeness.

    Glad you left and please don’t come back you rude fuck.

  • Jeroenske

    When you come here please understand the training wheels of political correct bullshit and padding you are used to are gone and you are in a whole new world of “directness”. Go with the flow and open your mouth to say what you think. If you don’t we might think you are “fake, BS, etc” we treat you as such.

    And best of all if you don’t like it GTFO ASAP !!

  • Antonio

    The problem with Dutch people ( 99 % ) is that they can’t take criticism from Forreigners, Minorities, etc, even those who are born and raised in the Netherlands, so everything what a Dutch person says must be like that and nothing else, and if you don’t like it, then you can get out of their country fact, like they say, the problem is now when we compare the past with the present timein the Netherlands, that a lot of Forreigners, Minorities, Immigrants speak very good the Dutch language and understand Dutch mentality, and can defend themselves towards the Dutch native people, and that is the problem for the Dutch, it is in their nature to only accept their way of thinking and doing, and nothing else, and as a Forreigner no matter if you were born and raised or came recently to the Netherlands, who have nothing to say, and nothing to complain, like they say, the Dutchway or the highway, and goes on from 1500 to today, in the thinking of the Dutch, they only like the period when the first Immigrants came to the Netherlands, years 1950, 60, 70, those people didn’t understand the Dutch complex language, habbits, culture etc, and the Dutch native people only exploited them and made fun of them, that is what Dutch people do best, they are the kings in that, making fun of others, nobody does it better, they rule, and now with the other generations Immigrants, they can’t do that no more and therefore there is a lot of hate towards Immigrants, Forreigners Minorities, etc in 2015 !

  • Mooi Damsel ~

    Yes, hard period for me… I am french and I am very sensitive . They made fun of me..
    One day, my boss (Lisa) forced me to go with here and one of her good customer at the restaurant . She did not order me a dish, I had to finish the remaining of their plates..

  • Rico

    I have a lot of examples from my own life where expats were actually put ‘higher on the list’ than me in different fields. ‘Expats’ applying for the things I needed, had more chance on a house or job than I had when I lived in Holland. So your wrong from where I’m standing. The people I knew were furious about that fact, yet I told them that there are other people with urgency. It all depends on which side your standing. The common negative view is that Expats ‘take away all the money and services from Holland’. The common positive view is that Expats: ‘bring culture and color into the Netherlands’.

    The treatment they had, exactly. Yet they’re the ones saying that ‘everyone there’ and ‘the whole country is’. It still doesn’t mean that everyone is like that. Not by far, It again means that they had a bad experience.

    My reaction is on the comments people gave, not the the article itself. Writing Hindu/Arabic etcetera is relevant to the persons who said that ‘Dutch don’t want to know anything about other cultures’. I’m not going to attack anyone however. You obviously didn’t understand my intention with that, maybe because it wasn’t meant for you in the first place.

    What people are doing is pointing the same kind of hate back at ‘the Dutch’, that is what I was talking about. Just because you don’t understand (yet you claim to understand) why I wrote what I wrote, doesn’t mean it’s not relevant. What you believe is again just one opinion, not an absolute definition of anything. The same goes for what I wrote, yet I’m sure that someone will find it useful.

  • Uskudar

    I understand that you as a Dutch person it isnt nice to read this comments concerning your country Netherlands, and that the truth can be hard, because you have a different thinking about your country, but fact is that there are 4.000.000 Forreigners, Immigrants living in your country now, and some are happy, and some not, fact and that we Immigrants also have our right to say our thinking and experience in your country, although it can be hard towards you Dutch people, but that is reality for the most of us Immigrants in the Netherlands, I know that it is everywhere difficult living in every country in the world, somewhere better, somewhere worse, but also life in Netherlands is difficult for a lot of Immigrants, fact, and our experience !

  • Johan Sterk

    You have a terrible fiancee too? Poor thing!

  • Johan Sterk

    Believe it or not, not every civil servant can speak a foreign language. Nor is it obligatory to do so. In this case it is best to hire a professional tax advisor that does the communication for you.

  • Johan Sterk

    or get a job?

  • Johan Sterk

    You have a terrible girlfriend too? Poor thing!

  • kjherstin

    It really is tiring when Dutch troll this news item and verbally attack and make sarcastic comments, it really shows the ugly side of the Dutch society. I have been living here for almost 8 years now, and have seen that ugly side way too much for my liking. The truth hurts, maybe you should do something about it to make changes instead of trolling here.

    I have met many wonderful people in the the Netherlands and I can say through my experience living here, that the Netherlands is not only VERY UNFRIENDLY to EXPATS but also UNFRIENDLY TO Dutch! It is not a country that cares for its own people and that’s where the root of the problem lies. If they don’t care for their own native inhabitants, of course they are not going to care about foreigners!

    You may troll and poke but stop making smart arse replies and misinterpreting our comments because it only makes you look like arseholes! This news item is quite clear. If the Netherlands was rated the most unfriendly country for expats, then the solution is to get your fat arse up and do something about it. Make a change and be a better human being. Try being frIendly and help direct an expat in the right direction, be more accepting and welcoming not posting rubbish and sarcastic trash here.

  • mckroket65

    I find it hilarious how the Dutch claim they are just being “blunt” and “honest” and then get butthurt when people are blunt and honest about their opinions on the Dutch.

  • Almeria

    I think you are a Dutch person, or a Forreigner ( Bounty ) who is selling himself to Dutch people, that is your comment, if you can’t beat them, then join them !

  • kjherstin

    You need to read my comment again or ask a native English speaker to explain it to you, because it is clear that you did not understand a word of what I said.

  • guest

    The only people I want to be friendly to are refugees. I guess you as an Australian wouldn’t understand that. The only thing Australians are good at is extraditing them to Nauru. Really, unbelievable what a racist nation Australia is.

  • guest

    Yes, it is almost the same as how Americunts react.

  • mckroket65

    Hehe you sorry excuse for a human being I am Dutch now go kill yourself.While you are at it smack the bitch of a mother of put you on this world and the pimp who raped her. Americunts ? It must have taken you all 8 years of your advanced Dutch education to come up with that.

  • Chris Kyle

    OOOOOH you are good at using foul words. I am so envious.

  • Trabzon

    Why can’t why Forreigners complain about the Dutch people,and their behaving towards others, but at the same time the Dutch are only complaining about the most Forreigners in their small rijtjeswoningenland, so only the Dutch have the right to say something and to critize others, are these their democratic values which they talk about, so everyone has the right to give his or hers opinion and experience in this country, because I’ve been living here almost 15 years and have only got complaints and sarcasm from the Dutch, so what I we Forreigners return the favor !

  • Forreigner

    It is pretty obvious that Trabzon, Uskudar, Almeria, Antonio and Max are one and the same person. Don’t write “Forreigner” with a capital F and double R in the future. You are exposing yourself.

  • mckroket65

    When you come here ? What makes you think anyone wants to come to your whore like country ? When you come to my country keep your mouth shut. The very sound of your voice makes me want to smash your teeth in. Problem with the Dutch is quite simple. They breath. When they stop breathing ? No more problem. I like the women though. They f*ck good.

  • kjherstin

    You are only going to be friendly to refugees and not to foreigners in the Netherlands? Aren’t you a nice Dutch person? It is wrong what some Australians have done in the past and continue to do. There are a lot of people like that, unfortunately but at least I personally am not like that and do all that I can to help others, unlike you.

  • Guest

    Haa!
    This story sounds made up, there is no way this happened.
    And else you need to learn to stand up for yourself, especially in Holland, but also in French. You should now interns are protected by laugh and you could have filed charges for this.

  • Mooi Damsel ~

    You don’t believe me, I don’t care , I know what I lived. I took pict’s of it .
    I tried to do something against them but nothing happened

  • Horoz

    Very expensive country and bad people, not nice people in the NL !

  • Obama Bin Laden

    Typical Americunt. Always aggressive. No wonder terrorists always attack the United States of Assholes. Pity that the WTC had only two towers. Should have been more.

  • Hosgeldiniz

    Dutch people = desperate Wannabe Germans !

  • jbholland87

    May i explain some thing about the dutch people? because im a dutch men and i am 27 years old.

    We got some problems here in holland, if you are raised in the citty you NEED to be harsh, or else people walk over you, remember that the cittys are like 75% NON dutch people, i think amsterdam was like 90% not ”real” dutch people.
    Not to be rasist or anything….

    But oke we got that problem. If you look at the end parts of holland, close to germany and belgium and the nord sea, people are way more relaxt. and much much much more frendly.

  • jbholland87

    Where were you in holland? the big cittys i guess?

  • Mooi Damsel ~

    Den Haag

  • jbholland

    Yeah i understand, most people in the big cittys are kind of assholes. if i may say that..

  • Sodapopa

    Anne I’m not going to discuss wether or not you are making it up but looking at your pciture. Holy shit. You only had to talk to ONE person responsible for your situation and it would have been solved. I can’t imagine that not being so. Who was responsible for you and why did they not help? I have worked with students for 20 years in Nijmegen, Utrecht and Amsterdam, providing registration, a home and transport when internationals arrived, NEVER in my life have I heard of your story. So sad for you, because if you were under my guard you would have a fantastic time. People like this are not supposed to be in charge in education.

    I don’t like the fact that you hate the Netherlands for it, in almost 20 years of work i hardly see a sad face amongst the internationals, it’s all joy and memories, I’m sorry :( And you even seem so happy in your picture hah, even if the stupid lady put you underneath a desk! Good for you :)

  • Sodapopa

    Yes, it used to be like that, then 2,5 million people crossed our borders and started living here. Fuck sake don’t you get that? There’s no time because there’s too many people, zzzzinnnnggg..

  • mckroket65

    Explain something about Dutch people ? Everyone else here has been explaining Dutch people to you but you and your buddies don’t seem to want to get it. “not to be racist or anything….” but you are wrong. From Gronigen to Maastricht from Den Haag to Venlo ? You are all without exception or compromise a sick and degenerate sub human species that threatens the entirety of humanity. Nice that you admit there is a problem but there is only 1 solution to the .. Dutch problem and it is not dialogue or compromise. Hey I am just being direct and honest. Don’t want to be judged as fake now would I ?

  • guest

    Don’t you have something useful to do, like killing African Americans? Or put them in jail? Because that is what Americunts do best. Obese country of filth.

  • guest

    In the past. Australia is extraditing refugees to Nauru right now. Thanks to a racist piece of scum like Tony Abbott. A politician voted to power by racist Australians.

  • mckroket65

    Hehe you silly stupid ignorant inbred cheesehead I am not American. But what would you care ? Even still why kill African Americans when bitch slapping your mother for putting you on this earth is much more satisfying. Seriously what was she thinking ? The world would have been better off if the pimp you call father ass raped her instead of making you instead. Hey there ! Just being direct and honest. Don’t be so sensitive there buddy 😉

  • guest

    No you are merely an inbred who needs special shoes to walk. Glad the Dutch ripped you off. Cunts like you deserve it. Take a hint, we don’t want inbreds like you in this country.

  • mckroket65

    A ha so you admit the Dutch rip people off. You see ? Not so hard just admit you are thieves and the whole discussion takes a different tone. So then .. how long have you been a thief ? Why do you steal ? Why can’t you earn what you need ? Are Dutch people born to be thieves ? Oh by the way I am not in your country. Maybe you do not want me in your country and that is fair enough I do not want you on this planet and the sooner you take care of that ? The better. If you have children ? I do insist they be sterilized so that your putrid genetic line ends right here right now. Hey there ! Just being direct and honest. Take off the training wheels of political bullshit will you ? You are waaaaaaaaaaay to sensitive. God knows I fear in your judgement of being fake.

  • guest

    Well. They rip you off. Because that is what you deserve. You are an Americunt and Americunts deserve to be ripped off. Especially cripple ones like you. If only your mother wouldn’t have married her brother. Well, pity.

  • kjherstin

    That guest is a trouble maker, a coward and a wanker who hides under an anonymous guest. He just can’t accept the reality of Dutch society and keeps talking rubbish and politics, instead of human reality

  • kjherstin

    ROFL

  • mckroket65

    LOL you must have steam coming out of your ears right now. If my mother married her brother ? Then you and I would have a lot in common and we would not be having this little chat. It took you a whole 6 minutes to reply ? De Fuher Wilders must be texting you what to say. Tell Geert I said hi. Oh by the way ? Your English sucks. Hey there ! Just being direct and honest :)

  • mckroket65

    There is a method to my madness if you must know. if they insist that everyone be direct and honest ? That we take off the training wheels of politically correct bullshit ? if they are going to judge us for being fake ? Ok that’s fine then i will be so direct and honest that their little cheese filled heads explode. One thing I have learned about the Dutch ? They absolutely HATE it when the shoe is on the other foot. So much for being genuine. Peace

  • guest

    Oh look, a racist Australian.

  • guest

    No, I am not mad. I am merely trolling. It seems that you are the one who is glued to his computer screen. Probably because you are a cripple.

  • guest

    Australia, a country that sends gay refugees to Papua New Guinea, a country where homosexuality is punishable by law. But I can understand it, after all Australia is FULL. No room for more people there.

  • guest

    Aborigines beg to differ about Australian reality and society. (By the way, I doubt that mckroket65’s name is his real name. So there is really no difference between my anonymous guest and his wanker screen name.)

  • kjherstin

    Buddha says when someone fires an arrow into you, you don’t try and find out who fired the arrow and what they are all about. You concentrate on getting the arrow out.

  • mckroket65

    Trouble maker, a coward and a wanker ? Or you can just say Dutch. Means the same thing. By the way I have always liked Australia. They make good wine. The women seem to be startling beautiful and they have great musicians of course. Peace.

  • guest

    Of course you like Australia. After all the Brits dumped their prisoners there.

  • kjherstin

    You are so ignorant, it really is astounding! What do you know? You are judging from miles away. We are talking about our experiences here. There is bad in every country and that is what everyone should aim on changing. You keep acting and reacting like a racist. Look at yourself!

  • mckroket65

    Of course they dumped their prisoners there. They originally wanted to dump them in the Netherlands but cooler heads prevailed and British justice decided that even criminals should not be subjected to the Dutch. That is cruel and inhuman punishment.

  • Danny

    I’ve lived everywhere in the Netherlands, and never felt good, from Groningen, Enschede, Arnhem, Venlo, everywhere is very bad living, people are like robots, only looking angry to other non Dutch people, also difficult country, Dutch people are always looking suspicious to non Dutch people !

  • guest

    And again a comment by the same person who also has written the comments with the word “Forreigner” in it. (Uskudar, Almeria, Trabzon, Horoz, Hosgeldiniz, Antonio, etc) Because apart from that word you are also giving your identity away by up voting your own comment and by ending your comments with a space followed by an exclamation mark. I guess the up vote by some guest is also yours. So please, be a bit creative. This is plain sad.

  • Kaassie

    I live in NL and can’t stand those people, the Dutch people are some of the rudest people
    I have ever me in this life, they are cheap, unhelpful
    and lazy, arrogant, they only think that everything is about them, small shit country, also cant take critic !

  • americunt

    Hilarious. How many personalities do you have?

  • Lia

    Well said, Tomq. However, I would like to add that they will only help people if it does not cost them anything and if they get something for it.

  • Lia

    Suzie30 is right. My Dutch brother in law once came into my home and saw my father´s photo and then made a very weird remark: he said that my dad looked like a Mexican criminal (keep in mind that my husband comes from an EXTREMELY conservative protestant family, and his father is a very respected man). After the comment I was silent, because it was unexpected. Well, a few months later, my brother in law came over for a visit and then I told him that he was a rude man and that there is a difference between being direct and being rude. He was very surprised to hear me say that and never more deared to say anything about my family.

  • Lia

    They have ostracized me for being a foreigner as well. I am from Brazil and I have a 7-year old little girl. You would cry if I told you what the bully Dutch moms have done to my daughter. They never invite her to play with their kids (there are a lot of kids from her classroom who live in hour street—we are neighbors). They don´t invite my daughter to birthday parties, etc…. And we live quite well, in an upper class area. I have a masters degree from the Netherlands, my husband, a Duch man is well employed, etc…. We are quite nice, we don´t smoke, don´t do anything that could justify their actions.

  • Lia

    They have ostracized me for being a foreigner as well. I am from Brazil and I have a 7-year old little girl. You would cry if I told you what the bully Dutch moms have done to my daughter. They never invite her to play with their kids (there are a lot of kids from her classroom who live in hour street—we are neighbors). They don´t invite my daughter to birthday parties, etc…. And we live quite well, in an upper class area. I have a masters degree from the Netherlands, my husband is well employed Dutch man, etc…. We are quite nice people, we don´t smoke, don´t do anything that could justify their actions.

  • Lia

    Me too, Monica. I´ve been here for 10 years and I still suffer from a lot of things that have been mentioned here. I also have a master´s degree from Holland, I am neat, I speak English very well, because I lived in the U.S. for 15 years, you name it, but the only jobs that I got was working at clothing stores, where I was extremely mistreated, and where I presenced foreigners being extremely mistreated.

  • Lia

    I´m not black, my skin collor is caramel, but whenever I step into a store (V&D, Blokker, Kruidvat, Etos, etc…), I am immediately followed by security. The funny thing is that I would steal anything to save my life, and I really don’t need too either!

  • lia

    Stacyazareum, don’t come to live in Holland. Life here is not nice at all.

  • Lia

    True, Gerry. Just an addition, when they invite people over is because they are curious to find out stuff about them to have something to gossip about with neighbors and family members. These people are no good, and should not be trusted. They are false and serious backstabbers.

  • Lia

    Mooi Damsel, you should feel lucky for having left after 3 months. I’ve been living in this terrible country for almost 10 years, but I can’t leave because I have kids here. It is a nightmare to live in Holland. I don’t advise anyone to move to Holland. Girls, if you are dating a Dutch guy, ask him to move to your country, but don’t give up your families, friends, mother tongue, job, etc…. to live in Holland. It is just not worth it. The Dutch talk about their country as if it were a little paradise of earth, but it really isn’t. Also, they like to accuse foreigners of being agreessive, but believe me, the Dutch are very aggressive; it is another type of aggression/or shown differently. While in most countries aggression is more physycal, here they don’t move their facial muscles, nor gesticulate, but what they do behind people’s back is really bad.

  • Lia

    I have 7 sisters in law, who come from a very conservative Protestant family. These women make fun of me too. They mock the way I dress, the way I walk, the way I talk, etc… Actually, they do that when they are together, they don’t dare do these things when they are alone. Typical Dutch, to act like cowards.

  • Lia

    She is right. I really believe her. I’ve been through similar things here. Still do.

  • Lia

    Sodapopa, believe Mooi Damsel, life in your country is quite bad for foreigners. I know it is hard to admit, or even believe it.

  • Lia

    jbholland, I don’t live in a big city. This happens at different places in Holland.

  • Lia

    Azul, I believe you. It is not only racial, they just don’t like foreigners at all.

  • Lia

    Cisxo, what you said is right. You will rarely meet an expat who has Dutch friends. Expats hang out with expats. Actually, at my daughters school, you see the apartheid in the school square. They bully Dutch moms don’t invite mixed kids to their homes to play with their children. My kid is white, but her mom is a foreigner and that is the reason why they ostracize us.

  • Lia

    I know a lot of foreigners in Holland who ended up looking for psychological help.

  • Lia

    When my primary care physician found out that I was pregnant, he didn’t even shake hands with my husband. He gave him a dirty look and walked away.

  • Mooi Damsel ~

    You have my full support !!
    I ve seen everything you’re describing ! It was a real nightmare for me so,I can’t imagine your situation !
    When I returned to France , I got really sick

  • Lia

    It is so Dutch to put people down, to humiliate people. This is not a spelling contest. English is a global language and it does not have to be standard to be understood.

  • Lia

    They may be nice abroad, or when they need something from someone.

  • Lia

    The Dutch are totally alienated from real life. It’s not even worth talking to them. They live inside of their Dutch bubble, and know nothing else about reality. Life in Holland is not real, it is sterile, like hospital rooms. What does ids know?

  • Lia

    There are thousands of Dutch peple in Brazil, thousands in the U.S., thousands in Australia, thousands in South Africa, thousands in Great Britain, thousands in Turkey, etc…… They strongly believe that they have the right to go anywhere, but their country is sacred. They screwed up many contries during the colonization period, but they don’t feel responsible for the mess they left behind. Still to this day the Zwarte Piet, like Black face, are the Sints stupid helpers, with wide lips and noses and Afro wigs, and these people find it normal. How about the ship, resembling the discovery voyages, and the outfits typical of that period? Go figure!

  • Lia

    Leave. Especially if you don’t have kids. Once you have kids, you will be trapped here. I’m sure there are other women in Australia. Pack and go.

  • Anvers

    Being a Dutch person, I find this article very true. I was born and grew up in the Netherlands, for the last 10 years I have lived abroad various places in Europe and recently I have returned to the Netherlands, because of this all I know look different to other people who come to the Netherlands for a new life to start.

  • jack

    I am not Dutch, but I think you are a complete racist and generalist. You should be ashamed of yourself.

  • Manon

    wow… that’s really negative… yeah we make fun of each other and we might talk about you behind your back… but we do it with everyone… not only foreigners… and i also make fun of myself… a lot, and know a lot of others who do that… and the gosipything doesn’t have to be bad we’re just really curious so we share the information we gat with others… not in a bad way, cause when its always in a bad way, well that is bullying and we (I) find that horrible…

  • Krasniqi

    I am already living here for about 5 years in the Netherlands, and have a moderate job in a company, although the job isn’t to bad, it could be worse, I am looking for a new place to live and work, outside the Netherlands. You don’t have a normal social life and alot of rudeness and cold by the Dutch people. It also was very hard to be accepted by the Dutch people at work for me. I personally think this country is only good for the Dutch people and people who have the same thinking as them, and when I go away out of this country, I won’t miss it at all, what I have also seen by the Dutch people is that they often have complaints about people who come from the outside, and are new in their country, that those newcomers don’t want to integrate in their society and make problems for the Dutch people, but I know from my own life, that also a lot of newcomers are hardworking and honest people, who are a plus for the Dutch country, and at the same time, a lot of Dutch people who live abroad in other countries, also don’t behave nice in the other countries and don’t adjust to a new country and culture, just look how Dutch people behave in Germany at the border in the local shops and other public places, only talking loud their own language, like the own Germany and they also have roadsigns in German and Dutch language, so but when a newcomers comes in their country and wants something for him or his community, some building, place for cultural meeting, etc, then it is a problem for the Dutch people, double standars they have, on paper is the Netherlands a nice country with rights for everyone, in reality ?????????

  • Guest

    Suprise, suprise, who could this be ?

  • Ero Lovespell

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  • floor

    whahahaha oh my god. If you don’t like Holland, just leave. No problem. If you like it, stay. No problem. I think it is pretty unfair to include “how hard it is to learn the language”, No wonder English-speaking nations rank higher.

  • Amar

    After almost 7 years living here in the Netherlands, I am desperate to leave this place, the Dutch people have a weird sense of humor and simply bad. in the beginning in the Netherlands I was very open and wanted to be part of this country. but now
    I’m tired of the same old questions about my dutch language,and where I am from, and making fun od me all the time, education and workplace. they are racist people, if you don]t have the religion they have. I am giving
    up the Dutch language and only socialize with other foreigners. my thinking is now, just be pacient and
    optimistic because one day I will leave this country!

  • ASM55

    Sadly all true comments. But, ironically when you find a really good Dutch person, and they are there, a minority but I know some, and they are the best of people wherever.
    Remember the resistance during occupation under the Germans were very brave too and to be admired !
    A lot can be quite nasty sadly yes, and gossips. All true. Rather sanctimonious too when they have little reason in my view.. Always telling me how wonderful they and their country is. Ni evidence to back thst uo though so they try to convince by words. Works for them, see so they think it will on us ? But this mentslity is much more prevalent in the “West ” than the south and north. I know all parts.
    The worst was not being allowed to pick up my crying baby .( in the West at the time)
    As if I, the mum did not know when my baby needed picking up or when he was niggling and needed to cry it out !
    A kind of tyranny. I even defied my Dutch husband who knew no better when our first baby was screaming, red-faced. I knew he was in pain and picked him up. Had to wait ten minutes with this tiny precious being on my shoulder gently tapping his back, when an almighty burp came up and he fell asleep immediately on my shoulder ! It was trapped wind even though he had buroed a few times after feeding, some still there.
    I triumphantly marched past my husband laying my baby gently in the crib, he slept …well like a baby !
    The other two I had when we were living inGB. Wonderful,incomparable ! .also the nursing care in hospital. All incomparable.
    My husband learned his lesson and never interfered again realising he was the product of a Dutch raising. someone who listens to authority, parents, family, doctors etc. at all times, almost without even questioning or thinking for themselves. Although they deny this and the reason most tow the party line unless they dare to divulge they love to think differently !
    I feel sorry for them really as they seem ruled more by fear than love and the potential for niceness and compassion is in there. I disagree with comments that they are rational and direct. It has been proved they spend the most time in the world at meetings ! Hardly direct. More like rude. wearing their hearts on their sleeves and even a Dutch doctor agreed with me ! But he is an Anglophile.

  • ASM55

    Sorry for typo’s I can’t get used to touchscreen !

  • Bob Loblaw

    I love for? that’s not even English, no wonder you get laughed at.

  • mckroket65

    Who is laughing at him ? I am not. His English is good enough. No wonder people are laughing at him ? No wonder why people are questioning your humanity and your right to exist. Next time you post your drivel ? Please let it be your last post .. ever .. on this earth. Hey … I am just being honest.

  • mckroket65

    Hard to speak the language ? German is not at all hard to learn. The problem is that not everyone drinks their self stupid and lowers themselves to the level of the German ghetto slang you call “Dutch” . I mean .. you can try .. but ? What is the point ? Speaking Dutch will only get your teeth smashed in in any civilized country in the world. South Africa maybe ? Shrugs ….

  • Janissary

    The Dutch don’t have to go so far away to South Africa at all for a welcome, they can just go to the Bosnian town of Srebrenica, there they will always be welcomed with open arms, because of the good impression they left behind, people there just love them !

  • dandy

    I have studied, stayed and worked in Netherlands for last 17 years. I have seen the good and the bad side of things. Most of what the dutch people do is related to money. That’s probably the only common denominator in everything they do. If there is an exception I would be surprised. Their entire social system is based on the working class financing the non working class (and pensioners). Since their demographics does not allow for native dutch people to provide for the full working class they are FORCED ECONOMICALLY to allow people to come and work here. Pay structure sucks and is one of the worst in western europe. Add to that the taxation which can be as high as 52%. So in order to sustain their debt they will bring in qualified people to work. Socially one will always feel as an outsider even if you spend your whole life here. So do not expect any bosom friendship here. Quite rare ….But they are helpful if you kind of instruct them what they need to help with…so practical… I have also seen dutch person spitting at brown skin person who was a postdoc (Physics) in Amsterdam. Yes with my own eyes…that shows what lies beneath the surface. But also my friends at university have helped in many ways which would not happen in many other countries. Overall dutch people who have spent time abroad (especially Canada, USA, Asia) are more open and people only staying in Netherlands and western europe are still way backward as far as social niceties are concerned.That is all…but I could go on for hours probably and mostly it will reflect some of the comments already mentioned in this forum.

  • Bhanspoer

    Yes, I also agree with you, there is a lot of bad things in the Netherlands, they are very cold as society, they do not like people from outside, non Dutch, especially if you are dark person, very tough living, a lot of racism, now more than earlier, for 20 years less, now more, and very expensive country also,I also have bad feelings for this country, a waste of time for me, every country is better for alternative, and you also work for the state.

  • Sanjak

    They are also very unfriendly towards people with a certain belief in the Netherlands.

  • SeeThroughYou

    I went to school in Utrecht for 2 years and unless something has radically changed in the last 20 years I can’t believe I’m reading this!

    I am still friends with most of my Dutch school chums and have gone back several times to attend weddings(and even a funeral unfortunately) and have thought seriously about retiring there.

  • LCK

    I came here because my work transferred me here to run the EMEA operations.
    I’ve lived all over the world and in the Netherlands is the first place that I have not been able to make ‘local’ friends. Don’t misunderstand, I have dozens of close friends here, but none of them are dutch. I have tried and tried. Invited out a hundred times, bought beers, cooked for them, some have even spent the night in our spare room, then afterwards, … nothing. Never a reciprocal invitation, never an offer for beers, no follow up email or phone call – nothing.
    I speak dutch a little, but not perfect, so maybe that’s part of it. We’ve been here for 8 years now, and have pretty much resolved ourselves to the fact that what we have been told by Dutch people is true “I didn’t go to school with you, so we’ll never really be ‘friends'”. I guess that’s ok, as long as I know it up front.
    I often hear people say “Dutch people are ‘direct'”, which is like putting lipstick on a pig. It won’t make it a princess, and ‘direct’ is a fancy way of saying RUDE. You can call it whatever you like, but the behavior me and my wife see daily, in any other society would be called exactly what it is, rudeness, and intentionally INSULTING. People treating each other badly. Yet we keep putting up with it.
    Classic example. On the train, first class, was supposed to have working wifi and electric outlets (my company paid so I could work during the journey), none of which worked. I nicely asked the employee if she could do anything about it, move us to another seat which was working. No. Those seats are reserved, there is nothing I can do. She actually looked me in the eye and said “Bad luck for you” and walked away. I sat there stunned at the blatant indifference and rude response.
    That is one of the many downsides to the dutch people. We will most likely always be ‘outsiders’ to them, but thats not necessarily a negative thing. LIke I mentioned, there are so many wonderful expats here, that making real, lasting friends is actually quite easy.
    But that doesn’t make Dutch people bad, as long as you understand them, and can deal with the boundaries they put up, and don’t set unrealistic expectations.

    As for the society as a whole, it is super-well organized. The system is quite bureaucratic, and very much geared towards helping people. Taxes are paid, and services really are provided. Health care is frustrating and time-consuming. “I’ve been sick already for a week, I already took paracetamol, orange juice, lots of rest, positive thoughts, and now I want medication”…Doctor: “Try some more Paracetamol, then come back in 2 weeks if it doesn’t go away”. :-(

    Some positive points, some negative points, just like everywhere, but there’s good reasons why the Netherlands was voted as one of the most unfriendly countries for Expats, but Holland does not see itself clearly and objectively in the mirror, and will never do anything about it. Set your expectations accordingly to avoid disappointment.

  • Naser

    They are very arrogant, they think the whole world is about them, like nobody can function without them, rude people, they dont like outsiders, people new in country.

  • Russell Sherwood

    I have been in Amsterdam for a year. I’m from London and it took me over a year to find a legal place to live and register. I got no help and it’s turned me into a very bitter person.
    I can’t belive how ignorant the Dutch can be. If your country can’t accommodate people why let them in.

  • Just a foreigner

    Hi there I feel the same way as you! This is my first time writing on a forum about Dutch people. I have been living here almost 10 years now with two children whom were born here however they are constantly treated like foreigners despite the fact that my husband is Dutch. I feel so lonely sometimes as just when I think that I have made a friend it turns out that they are just faking it. They love to speak English so I am used to show off their level of English. But when there are other Dutch women around they act like they do not even know me. I stood this morning at the school behind them as they kept their backs to me as they chatted amongst themselves. I said in Dutch Goede morgen but they continued to ignore me but when they need something or want to look social they will then acknowledge me. The least they could do is acknowledge me as a human being. No matter what you do or how hard you try to integrate they will always keep you outside the group.
    They pretend to be your friend at parties or for birthdays then after the event you don´t hear from them again until the following birthday then you are supposed to act as fake as them like you are honoured to be in there company. I really want to leave this place however for economical reasons I am currently unable to get out of this place. Please anyone considering moving here DON`T.

  • eenbuitenlander

    I think it is hard for Dutch people to accept your comment, but I must say that there are some truth to this. I have been living here for 7 years, and I am trying to tell people that I am happy to be there, but the truth is far from it. I am still treated as a “buitenlander”. Dutch people like to act as if they know better. They like to tell other what is right, and what you should change. When I started my job, instead of asking how I work, they just told me how they work. No interest in other way of working. This is how Dutch people are. Of course not everyone is the same, but the ratio of rude people toward outsiders is a lot higher than other places I have lived in my life. I wish Dutch people see this post and think a bit about how they are towards others.

  • eenbuitenlander

    Because it happens everywhere, does not make it ok. People like you who do not want to admit are the people we are talking about.

  • guest

    I am happy for you. Brits don’t deserve to get any help.

  • guest

    The Dutch are also very desperate for you to leave. The country would be so much better without you in it.

  • guest

    A pity not more people were killed by the Serbs.

  • Chris Kyle

    Filthy Americunt. Keep your mouth shut. The world hates you.

  • EU

    More than 9000 Bosnian Muslim people were killed, biggest mass murder since WOII, so I think because you are so happy about this, that youmust be a Dutch person, who else could be happy about this, see youtube, Dutch contribution in Srebrenica, and as a Dutch person don’t be to happy about this all, because as a result of the Dutch passive contribution for not helping the Bosnian Muslim people during the killings of those people, the Netherlands had a large Bosnian Muslim refugee population from Bosnia and Herzegovina about 80.000 people, who now all have legal status in Netherlands, so it all depends how happy you as a Dutch person can be with your countries passive contribution to the biggest mass murders since WOII in Bosnia and Herzegovina!

  • guest

    This is because Dutch people are arrogant as persons, from the day they are born, they are raised to be very proud on their herritage and past, because they once were a mighty empire with a lot of colonies, slavery, exploitation of other people for their Dutch interess, they all think the world is about them and they all have the God mode, ubermenschmentality !

  • cheeseeatingsurrendermonkey

    France, the country that extradited Roma, the country were Marine Le Pen gets more votes then any other extreme right wing nutcase, the country that allows refugees to starve to death in Calais, the country that actually has a burqa ban, the country were hundreds of thousands protested against gay marriage. The French should be very very very quiet.

  • mckroket65

    Now now don’t talk to your father like that ! Just because the condom broke and your mother botched the abortion does not mean you can say those things. Tell your mother I said hi and I will be by to see her soon. 35 euro for a half hour is it ? She better wash herself this time. She was starting to get an odor about her.

  • Ercan Yilmaz

    Yes, it is very true, the Dutch are very bad people, I also didn’t make any friends here, and I wasn’t never accepted by them, very rude people, strange kind of humor they have, only they understand it, no one else does, and the Dutch behave like some superhumans, and other people are less worth than they are, that is the feeling, small bad country it is, although I was born and raised here, they hate my kind of people they often say, also Dutch police also very racist towards non Dutch people, fact, see youtube experience of other immigrant people, also Netherlands does depand of USA, in everything, they are nothing without USA, Marshall plan rebuilt this small sh…………country !

  • mckroket65

    The Brits do not need any help. The Netherlands is theirs by right. You rolled over and surrendered to the Germans after 3 days and the Brits beat the crap out of the Germans so what ever was the Germans property is now the property of the Brits. I know it sucks but why don’t you not surrender for once ? Your race is a conquered race and your country is an occupied country and all that you think belongs to you … including your women … belongs to us now … not that your women are complaining.

  • Mooi Damsel ~

    As you guys, you should shut up on this subject. “We are so oppen-minded” all bulshits ! You hate foreigners !

  • Jan

    Not surprising. The Dutch are generally so full of themselves (especially the women, who are the most unbearable living things, even worse than mosquitoes). They complain all the time about foreigners not speaking Dutch but won’t actually speak Dutch with foreigners so they can show off what they truly believe is fluent English – they do NOT speak English nearly as well as they think they do.

    The list goes on and on.

  • the yanks are coming

    Man, screw their Dutch mothers !

  • Otis Byrd

    She will pay you by spitting in your mouth. And you will happily accept it.

  • Peterson

    Dutch people are nice in general. But they are not open. And they are direct. I’m dutch, and very direct. And I’m proud of it. And i can’t believe after so many years that you’ve been living here that you still have it bad. Maybe its your behavior that irritates dutch people.

  • Peterson

    The only thing i have to add is that we live in a rough and cold weather environment, that hardened people. Our ancestors where rough barbarians. so are we.

  • mckroket65

    Rough barbarians ? Yeah …don’t think so. You’re just a jerk. That’s it. Nothing else. Own it.

  • cheeseeatingsurrendermonkey

    What was the percentage of French voting for Le Pen? It was something like 25%, wasn’t it?

  • Chris Kyle

    The Netherlands would be such a great place without all those moaning complaining expats.

  • katee

    Not to invalidate your feelings, but I’m Dutch and I never even considered that it’s wrong to invite anyone for ‘just’ birthdays. Even the best of the best friends of my parents only visit my parents on birthdays. Birthdays are considered to be VERY important. If you don’t go when you’re invited (or for good friends or family – even when you’re not invited, because you’re supposed to know when someone’s birthday is – that’s why you have the verjaardagskalender in the bathroom), that could mean that you are declaring your friendship’s off. You may have a good reason to miss a birthday, and then it’s okay if you let them know in advance, but otherwise it’s not okay to not show up. That’s why the Dutch don’t do rsvp: they only want to know if you’re NOT coming to the party because they assume you will come if invited. I know that in many countries friends hang out at least once a week. That’s just not custom in the Netherlands, except for maybe the one friend you met when you were a teenager. Now that I am living abroad I actually detest having to hang out with all my ‘friends’ (in Holland I would’ve called them acquintances, such as my neighbor) because it takes time away from my core family. In the Netherlands the gezin is the most important family unit. In English I don’t feel there’s even a proper word for that! And holidays, special occassions, it’s celebrated with the bigger family and friends, which I personally do not like at all. It takes away alone time with just the father, mother and kids. So maybe you’ll see it’s not necessarily because people don’t like you, it’s just a cultural difference. I hope that helps.

  • katee

    Dutch people don’t care if you smoke or not, they don’t care whether you’re rich or poor, whether you studied or not. This tells me you’re not in sync with what Dutch people actually think is important. You shouldn’t change who you are to have Dutch friends, but it might help if you understand their perspective. If I were you. I’d probably discuss this with your child’s teacher. This issue affects your daughters wellbeing and so is a topic you could ask the teacher about. When you’re at it, ask him what the other parents might think about you, if there is something that may be pushing them away. If the teacher says there’s nothing, no problem there, then ask their help in getting in contact with other parents. Maybe you can help organize an event or be part of some school club. I understand that in many cultures people are naturally friendly and go out of their way to talk to you and make you feel welcome. How much you and I would wish this to be the case, the Dutch are not like that. Especially the people who never keft will have no clue what it feels to be alone in a foreign place. But I am sure that if you reach out and make them see what it feels like, they will go out of their way to make you feel better. You just have to be ‘direct’ about it 😉